Good morning everyone,
I would like to replace my cheap cable with something that increases the depth in the bass range.
I didn't believe that cables could make a difference of a certain kind, but after several demonstrations I had to change my mind.
I am currently considering these cables:
BLACK AL litz 400 POWER CABLE IN PURE COPPER 5 mmq 150cm SUPER CONNECTORS
https://www.ebay.it/itm/134381539839
Oyaide Tunami GPX, Pcocc-a copper network cable 1.5 m
https://www.ebay.it/itm/175771853276
TFA - 3 Ft./90cm Mains cable with Furutech Schuko E11 + Fi-11 Cu
https://www.ebay.it/itm/155377361616
in your opinion which of these 3 cables should sound better and maybe even gain me something in terms of depth in the bass range ?
thanks everyone !
I would like to replace my cheap cable with something that increases the depth in the bass range.
I didn't believe that cables could make a difference of a certain kind, but after several demonstrations I had to change my mind.
I am currently considering these cables:
BLACK AL litz 400 POWER CABLE IN PURE COPPER 5 mmq 150cm SUPER CONNECTORS
https://www.ebay.it/itm/134381539839
Oyaide Tunami GPX, Pcocc-a copper network cable 1.5 m
https://www.ebay.it/itm/175771853276
TFA - 3 Ft./90cm Mains cable with Furutech Schuko E11 + Fi-11 Cu
https://www.ebay.it/itm/155377361616
in your opinion which of these 3 cables should sound better and maybe even gain me something in terms of depth in the bass range ?
thanks everyone !
The cheap cable may well be the best - those are all snake oil certified phoolery by the look of it. Start with speaker choice, speaker placement and room acoustics for bass response tuning. Most amplifiers stubbornly reject any outside influence at low frequencies as they are designed to do, i.e. their bass response is fixed. Main cables should first and foremost be safe and legal for your territory, and with appropriate fusing where appropriate.
The problem is that none of the above power cables is optimised for the best sound quality by its length! 😉
One power cable manufacturer claims listening tests show consistently that the best sound quality is obtained from cables cut to a length of 1.65 m.
To avoid such tomfoolery, I assemble my own budget (UK) power cables using the following components:
One power cable manufacturer claims listening tests show consistently that the best sound quality is obtained from cables cut to a length of 1.65 m.
To avoid such tomfoolery, I assemble my own budget (UK) power cables using the following components:
- MK Tough Plug 655 (UK mains plug)
- Kaiser IEC C13 794 Connector
- Belden 19364 screened power cable
And somehow that's 1.65 m from the wall outlet. Regardless of what's feeding that outlet. Snake oil at its finest.
I "love" the cable displays at hifi shows. Sure. Your power cable with conductors as thick as a garden hose will definitely make a difference when plugged into that hotel wall outlet at the end of the hall, fed by 200 m of 12/2 Romex. Uh-huh... Sure.
My personal favourite as at a show where I demoed my TCA HPA-1. I used some cheap GLS brand XLR cables (about $5/each) from the DAC to the amp. This cable salesman came in with XLR cables that were as thick as a garden hose and about as stiff as such hose at -40C. I was a bit concerned by how much stress they put on the XLR connectors in the equipment. So I tried his cables. Couldn't hear any difference. Swapped back to mine. Still no difference. Then I plugged in one of his and one of mine for left and right channel, respectively. The salesman's eyebrows shot to the ceiling. He'd never thought of that. I couldn't hear any difference. Swapped left and right channels. Still no difference. Cable Guy left disappointed. Sad...
Tom
Well, CLEARLY!
More seriously: Good luck cutting and terminating the cable to that degree of precision. 🙂
Tom
More seriously: Good luck cutting and terminating the cable to that degree of precision. 🙂
Tom
OP, if this type of expense is significant for you then please be 'deeply' cautious. It is quite likely that the apparent difference your heard is due either to unequal characteristics of the demonstrations involved, or to influences on perception which are not actually caused by cable performance. I worked for decades in the field of human perception, and it is astounding how even the more objective of us can be completely mislead by how our minds reach conclusions on such things.
But even just in terms of engineering; in many cases you would need a pretty cheap or badly designed device for a power lead to noticeably improve it. Maybe if your equipment had terrible noise filtering then an external filter may help, for instance. But this isn't really likely with decent audio equipment, in fact additional electronics within the lead might even degrade things. Whether that sounds better to you is another matter; there are many forms of distortion that people like.
And therin is IMO one possible answer. Likely none of these leads actually improve bass range (and whatever you think depth is caused by), so the one which sounds best is whichever one you personally believe sounds best. Maybe that is sufficient; such things relate closely to satisfaction, which ultimately is what we tend to be seeking, in which case realities are counterproductive. But if you actually want to make an improvement then probably your money could be better spent elsewhere.
But even just in terms of engineering; in many cases you would need a pretty cheap or badly designed device for a power lead to noticeably improve it. Maybe if your equipment had terrible noise filtering then an external filter may help, for instance. But this isn't really likely with decent audio equipment, in fact additional electronics within the lead might even degrade things. Whether that sounds better to you is another matter; there are many forms of distortion that people like.
And therin is IMO one possible answer. Likely none of these leads actually improve bass range (and whatever you think depth is caused by), so the one which sounds best is whichever one you personally believe sounds best. Maybe that is sufficient; such things relate closely to satisfaction, which ultimately is what we tend to be seeking, in which case realities are counterproductive. But if you actually want to make an improvement then probably your money could be better spent elsewhere.
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I can only wonder what demonstrations you had and if there was sleight of hand involved. If one power cable (which goes through the amp's power supply!) truly offers more "depth in the bass range" than another, the worse one has such thin wire and so much resistance that it's about to catch on fire.
Use 12 gauge (American Wire Gauge) power cable and 12 gauge "low voltage lighting cable" for speakers, each no more than 10 meters or so, and you'll be fine.
18 AWG (0.75 mm^2) is usually plenty for a power cord. But a 12-14 AWG cord doesn't cost that much more and will have beefier connectors, so go ahead and splurge.
A 14 AWG, 6' long, NEMA 5-15P -> IEC320-C13 cord by Tripp-Lite is $10.70 from Digikey. The 18 AWG version of the same cord, same manufacturer is $6.91. So for the cost of a cup of fancy coffee you get a fatter cord.
Tom
A 14 AWG, 6' long, NEMA 5-15P -> IEC320-C13 cord by Tripp-Lite is $10.70 from Digikey. The 18 AWG version of the same cord, same manufacturer is $6.91. So for the cost of a cup of fancy coffee you get a fatter cord.
Tom
NONE, all those claims are NONSENSE.
Cables have ZERO influence in Bass extension since all are flat down to DC.
Did anybody set up some kind of demonstration "showing" any change and it looked real to you?
Sleight of hand, nothing further.
And if you didn´t even assist one personally, just *read*praises about it ...even worse.
Well, no problem, you may very well do it, but see/hear no changes at the end.
Remember that the internet is full of paid endorsements and lobbying, and this applies not only to audio but just about anything, like even investment plans, for example.
On the other hand, if you don't consider those, then you'd be easily avoiding an unnecessary purchase.
In my opinion, they would all sound the same as regular electrical wiring which is what I use for just about everything.
Thanks to all the comments, I like now explain why I have to consider changing my cables (signal and power).
But first I like to share my point of view updated to 3 weeks ago.
In the past I have always thinked that expensive cables can' t do so much difference.
In my system in 20 years I have replaces the cables only few times with these results:
1) Signal cable: from very cheap cables (10 euro) to 40/ 60 euro. Result only 2/3% difference.
2) Power cable: from very cheap cables (2 euro) to a used 30/40 euro: Result 0% difference.
3) Speaker Cable: from 4/5 Euro / meter to 60 Euro used 3 meters: Result: much improvement on all aspects.
One week ago came to my house my friend for the first time that tell me the cable can do the difference, and brought along some cables that I didn't know how much they cost, he tell me these cables are all DIY becouse most of branded cables are they are useless and expensive.
In that moment in my mind the only problem is what I can tell him to not offend becosue before listen the cables I I thought it was a waste of time.
First we start with Mark knofer with my cables and with my system the high frequency is not too extended.
One minute after we change my signal cable with his DIY solderless in silver (800 euro only the connectors and 200 Euro tha cables).
No need to listen with attenction the difference is noticeable in only 5 seconds: the bass has softened considerably and the high frequency is more extended.
After we replace the power cable of my amplifier with his 120 Euro cable, but this time not at the some condition becouse my cable was connected to a filtered power strip, because his cable was too large we connected it to anoher power socket not filtered, so the bass with his cable was incresed but this can depend by the socket and not by cable I don't known.
After this in a second monent we have added 3 graphene dumper under my amplifier.
Believe it or not wih these changes my system was sound better then before as if I had replaced a component.
This is my experience ...
But first I like to share my point of view updated to 3 weeks ago.
In the past I have always thinked that expensive cables can' t do so much difference.
In my system in 20 years I have replaces the cables only few times with these results:
1) Signal cable: from very cheap cables (10 euro) to 40/ 60 euro. Result only 2/3% difference.
2) Power cable: from very cheap cables (2 euro) to a used 30/40 euro: Result 0% difference.
3) Speaker Cable: from 4/5 Euro / meter to 60 Euro used 3 meters: Result: much improvement on all aspects.
One week ago came to my house my friend for the first time that tell me the cable can do the difference, and brought along some cables that I didn't know how much they cost, he tell me these cables are all DIY becouse most of branded cables are they are useless and expensive.
In that moment in my mind the only problem is what I can tell him to not offend becosue before listen the cables I I thought it was a waste of time.
First we start with Mark knofer with my cables and with my system the high frequency is not too extended.
One minute after we change my signal cable with his DIY solderless in silver (800 euro only the connectors and 200 Euro tha cables).
No need to listen with attenction the difference is noticeable in only 5 seconds: the bass has softened considerably and the high frequency is more extended.
After we replace the power cable of my amplifier with his 120 Euro cable, but this time not at the some condition becouse my cable was connected to a filtered power strip, because his cable was too large we connected it to anoher power socket not filtered, so the bass with his cable was incresed but this can depend by the socket and not by cable I don't known.
After this in a second monent we have added 3 graphene dumper under my amplifier.
Believe it or not wih these changes my system was sound better then before as if I had replaced a component.
This is my experience ...
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What's a graphene dumper? That sounds exciting. Can you make one from a pencil and some sellotape? ;-)
I was surprised to read in a Naim speaker instruction book that "speaker cables are directional".
As regards mains leads, what about the wiring from wall outlet to consumer unit, and from transformer to your property?
You can't take one item out of context and confer magical properties on it.
As regards mains leads, what about the wiring from wall outlet to consumer unit, and from transformer to your property?
You can't take one item out of context and confer magical properties on it.
Today I will try what happen to my power cable if it conect it to the other socked (the one that I have used for the other cable).
if I don't feel any difference, the difference is the cable, but If I fell difference like 1 week ago with the other cable you have right the power cable don't take any difference.
if I don't feel any difference, the difference is the cable, but If I fell difference like 1 week ago with the other cable you have right the power cable don't take any difference.
@batteryman,
you're dealing with audio-gear-physics! Nothing you might have been tought applies here.
Naim ain't wrong; cables most certainly are directional...going from an amp towards a speaker, for example.
you're dealing with audio-gear-physics! Nothing you might have been tought applies here.
Naim ain't wrong; cables most certainly are directional...going from an amp towards a speaker, for example.
OK -possibly a foolish question, but if you liked what these xyz wires you listened to did (or you thought did) to your system, why not just use those?
Two points that may theoretically make a difference: ensure whatever power lead you're using is of sufficient gauge for the current demands of the component it's attached to. Not difficult -most things will be, but there's no harm in going heavier gauge for power-amps etc. if it makes you feel better and the lead is competently designed, constructed and safety rated / certified. And shielding may (may) be useful if it's cranking noise into other components or wires. Also not problematic or expensive. As an experiment you could simply try adding a ferrite clamp & see what you think. Costs peanuts, or less. Usually less.
I assume the graphine dumpers were something like the commercial versions of this? https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sblocks1e.html
Two points that may theoretically make a difference: ensure whatever power lead you're using is of sufficient gauge for the current demands of the component it's attached to. Not difficult -most things will be, but there's no harm in going heavier gauge for power-amps etc. if it makes you feel better and the lead is competently designed, constructed and safety rated / certified. And shielding may (may) be useful if it's cranking noise into other components or wires. Also not problematic or expensive. As an experiment you could simply try adding a ferrite clamp & see what you think. Costs peanuts, or less. Usually less.
I assume the graphine dumpers were something like the commercial versions of this? https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sblocks1e.html
You should have someone else swap cables and sockets and hide what they've done from you.
Then I challenge you to tell which is which!
I'd love to hear the science behind that claim.
Naim's marketing guys have invented it to sell their very expensive speaker cables?
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