I am trying to build my first monitor style speakers. I have two jbl selenium d220ti compression horn drivers already I was given. So I went off in search of a woofer to pair with it. Modeled many woofers in winisd and as I went I got greedy with what I wanted from the low end. Originally I was looking for something that would do 40hz @ -3db but as I tried different woofers and box designs that kept going lower and lower. I finally settled on the Dayton Epique e180he 7in driver. https://www.parts-express.com/Epiqu...G-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-per-Coil-295-104?quantity=1
The problem is that I have never used a compression tweeters before and don't know if this is appropriate to pair with. This woofer seems to be built more like a high excursion subwoofer and less like a pro woofer/mid you might find in a monitor. It looks like the biggest thing is that the tweeter needs to be more sensitive than the woofer which this definitely is. I saw some others use this woofer in monitor builds so it seems like it may be appropriate for a monitor but unsure if it will pair nice with the d220ti.
The d220ti freq response is 1000 - 21000hz
The Epique response is 25 - 3000hz
My crossover point was going to be close to 2k but can move.
The problem is that I have never used a compression tweeters before and don't know if this is appropriate to pair with. This woofer seems to be built more like a high excursion subwoofer and less like a pro woofer/mid you might find in a monitor. It looks like the biggest thing is that the tweeter needs to be more sensitive than the woofer which this definitely is. I saw some others use this woofer in monitor builds so it seems like it may be appropriate for a monitor but unsure if it will pair nice with the d220ti.
The d220ti freq response is 1000 - 21000hz
The Epique response is 25 - 3000hz
My crossover point was going to be close to 2k but can move.
I can't directly relate, but I might be in the ballpark with this. I am using a horn loaded tweeter with horn loaded bass cabinet. Some of the specs resemble what you are doing. In my case, I am using a 12db/octave crossover set at 2.5k. Seemed a bit high, but I went with the recommendation given by Madisound where both drivers were purchased. Like me, you may well have to pad down the tweeter, and enclosure at least can be modeled before you go on. Truth was, I didn't expect the excellent results that I got first time around and have only worked with speaker position since then. I hope that you have the same results.
The most important thing for a woofer going to a compression tweeter, is it's high frequency performance. It must accept going right up to the breakup region without problems.
Second, your crossover frequency depends solely on the size of the woofer because that controls where it goes into this region.
Thirdly, higher efficiency is good. Low bass and high efficiency are usually at odds.
Second, your crossover frequency depends solely on the size of the woofer because that controls where it goes into this region.
Thirdly, higher efficiency is good. Low bass and high efficiency are usually at odds.
Pretty nice 7"
On a baffle in full space, off axis
Dont expect more than 800 Hz
So you need a horn with a cutoff of around 600 Hz
Then cross over at 800 Hz
large enough horn wont go much above 8 to 12 kHz
Woofer is only 83 dB
Horn will be close to 105 dB or more.
So you would need a gracious amount of padding
likely much easier to just do a 3 way with direct radiators
for monitors.
Dayton has plenty of 2.5" drivers for mids.
you could use a smaller 3/4" tweeter for highs
If you want to do high efficiency with a horn.
Your looking at a pro audio woofer. At least 10" or 12"
again with a 800 Hz horn.
Your likely aware your looking at 60 to 90 liters for stiff compliance
driver, they need very large volume.
No need to fiddle around. It either works in a standard QB3
or not.
On a baffle in full space, off axis
Dont expect more than 800 Hz
So you need a horn with a cutoff of around 600 Hz
Then cross over at 800 Hz
large enough horn wont go much above 8 to 12 kHz
Woofer is only 83 dB
Horn will be close to 105 dB or more.
So you would need a gracious amount of padding
likely much easier to just do a 3 way with direct radiators
for monitors.
Dayton has plenty of 2.5" drivers for mids.
you could use a smaller 3/4" tweeter for highs
If you want to do high efficiency with a horn.
Your looking at a pro audio woofer. At least 10" or 12"
again with a 800 Hz horn.
Your likely aware your looking at 60 to 90 liters for stiff compliance
driver, they need very large volume.
No need to fiddle around. It either works in a standard QB3
or not.
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This Dayton have surprisingly good high frequency performance, going up to 3-4 kHz with decent directivity.
Assuming you are building constant directivity monitor a-la JBL 708, you need to put the crossover point where your woofer directivity matches that of your horn. At about 2300-2500 Hz Epique e180 haave a beamwidth of 90 degress (-6 dB), so, assuming your horn is also 90 degrees (most pro horns are 90 deg or less), this is where you need to cross.
What horns do you have? Even if exact model is unknown, post photos.
Assuming you are building constant directivity monitor a-la JBL 708, you need to put the crossover point where your woofer directivity matches that of your horn. At about 2300-2500 Hz Epique e180 haave a beamwidth of 90 degress (-6 dB), so, assuming your horn is also 90 degrees (most pro horns are 90 deg or less), this is where you need to cross.
What horns do you have? Even if exact model is unknown, post photos.
Yes, that woofer Is gonna be silent.
The good response in the bass Is made at the expense of efficiency, because the analysis of the data or graphs needs to be pondered on the level...the amplitude...the volume! So the question if it's a good pairing, the answer Is No!
Need to look at 8-10-12" mid-woofers.
Nowadays I see midranges that are very efficient, and that should be the target, speakers with mid-hi efficiency.
The more specialized speaker needs a narrow band .
Can't find that in the Selenium driver...it covers up too Many octaves! And the (necessary) horn Is too big for home, I mean, assuming a point source as a reference, the horn Is too big when It needs to be thin(the sound)...
Woofer 83db with or without bafflestep. Over 20db padding down horn. Probably not in the manual of gd audio engineering.
It's two (audio) worlds, actually.
One it's Home, the other Pro, or outside.
So different environments, and audience, so the constant coverage, the horns with constant directivity, the multiple subs for reaching the wanted SPL
(My mind flies at 100kW now!)
The arrays' of speakers...and so on
One it's Home, the other Pro, or outside.
So different environments, and audience, so the constant coverage, the horns with constant directivity, the multiple subs for reaching the wanted SPL
(My mind flies at 100kW now!)
The arrays' of speakers...and so on
Am I the only one who misses the horn here? Otherwise this could work, but it‘s never going to be a HES.
Come to think of it, Dayton has a 8” round waveguide that could turn out to be a reasonable match.
Come to think of it, Dayton has a 8” round waveguide that could turn out to be a reasonable match.
Studio monitors rarely uses horns, they more likely utilize a shallow waveguide (with a normal dome tweeter) for wider directivity, which still can be constant, but not as narrow directivity as a typical horn.
Anyway, if you really want to use a horn, you can choose a large one to cross lower or a smaller to cross higher to the midwoofer.
For a 8" mid a few that comes to my mind that have proven to be good:
Faital Pro STH100 (relative narrow)
18 Sound XT120 (wider)
RCF HF101 (wider)
Here are some good measurements for these and other horns:
https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/waveguide-shootout
Moreover I think it's harder to find a good sounding compression driver for home/studio listening for horns than a dome with a shallow waveguide.
Anyway, if you really want to use a horn, you can choose a large one to cross lower or a smaller to cross higher to the midwoofer.
For a 8" mid a few that comes to my mind that have proven to be good:
Faital Pro STH100 (relative narrow)
18 Sound XT120 (wider)
RCF HF101 (wider)
Here are some good measurements for these and other horns:
https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/waveguide-shootout
Moreover I think it's harder to find a good sounding compression driver for home/studio listening for horns than a dome with a shallow waveguide.
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It could be made to work in an active system. 200W class D for the bass, and 1 to 5W class A for a wave-guided tweeter. In which case, a high effciency tweeter would allow sub-1W power levels and very nice performance.
Then the woofer just has to live up to the marketing, with unmodulated mid-range while outputting +/-14mm of bass.
Then the woofer just has to live up to the marketing, with unmodulated mid-range while outputting +/-14mm of bass.
I don't get it. Studio monitors are for listening from 1 m to 2 m away. I listen from 3 m away in a 11 m deep 3 m wide 2.5 m high room, so I find a pro audio Peavey SP2(2004) to be perfect. 15" woofer + 1.4" CD on 7"x14" horn. 1/8 to 70 w instead of the specified 500 w. SInce it is 98 db 1w1m it sounds great at 1/8 watt. Low distortion, there is a chart in the spec sheet at 5 W. Sound is constant as I walk around the fairly dead room.
If I upgraded it would be a JBL 4320 but the only ones I ever saw for sale, you had to buy the entire theater 8 speaker set from 1200 miles away. I don't miss the lack of 17-20 khz of a 1.4" CD, I can't hear above 14 khz.
If you want 40 hz, buy a sub and pay the electricity penalty of a 3rd amp channel. 54 is about as low as even a 15" woofer can extend and cover +- 3 db to 1800 hz.
The same performance Is achieved by the Dayton woofer indicated by OP, and can do even Better than your 15".
The fact that it's designed to perform well with a 1" dome tweeter that can withstand 10 W of power and it's classified under Home Speakers (I guess) doesn't suggest you anything?;
The fact that it's designed to perform well with a 1" dome tweeter that can withstand 10 W of power and it's classified under Home Speakers (I guess) doesn't suggest you anything?;
No, wait, it's a Dayton Epique series, not an Exotic...which can mean anything.
The silly thing it's that Is a...subwoofer
And I mean...heavy!
So what monitor are we talking about?
The silly thing it's that Is a...subwoofer
And I mean...heavy!
So what monitor are we talking about?
The Epiques can be used as a bass-mid, but they do only about 80dB/W 1m half space. And I suspect that large surround will not contribute to midrange performance. But quite impressive stroke for this size.
OP,
You have the D220ti's, which were the original driver used in the Econowave series of speakers. I'd explore the vast number of designs using that tweeter and the JBL waveguide (a clone is easily available) and pick a suitable woofer.
Bill
You have the D220ti's, which were the original driver used in the Econowave series of speakers. I'd explore the vast number of designs using that tweeter and the JBL waveguide (a clone is easily available) and pick a suitable woofer.
Bill