Hey, its my first post although I often was browsing this forum. I ask for help because this drives me crazy and I think I tried everything I could think of.
I got 18l enclosure where Im using dayton ES180TiA 7" and SB acoustics sb26stwgc with the crossover that graph is below. I tried different dampening amounts from non to filling it whole with rockwool. I tried sealing the enclosure to a level where max xmax 10-20hz wont make any sound leaking. I tried moving them around, different dampening material, different room, dsp etc and they sound awful. Highs sound quite decent but midrange sounds weak and bass is also awful. It sounds worse than emotiva b1 or even audioengine a2+ or kef iq7's. They sounded quite good in open baffle expect that they couldnt even hit 250hz and I had to do excesive dps and cross them with sub but they sounded really good then. Right even tho they measure like the green graph below in room they sound like a 50usd speaker or something.
I got 18l enclosure where Im using dayton ES180TiA 7" and SB acoustics sb26stwgc with the crossover that graph is below. I tried different dampening amounts from non to filling it whole with rockwool. I tried sealing the enclosure to a level where max xmax 10-20hz wont make any sound leaking. I tried moving them around, different dampening material, different room, dsp etc and they sound awful. Highs sound quite decent but midrange sounds weak and bass is also awful. It sounds worse than emotiva b1 or even audioengine a2+ or kef iq7's. They sounded quite good in open baffle expect that they couldnt even hit 250hz and I had to do excesive dps and cross them with sub but they sounded really good then. Right even tho they measure like the green graph below in room they sound like a 50usd speaker or something.
Attachments
I also did try making it ported with 4cm 14cm port but it only decreased bass for some reason and started to sound boomy so I decided to seal it completely
Do you have raw measurements of the drivers in the cabinet but without crossover?
The lowpass crossover looks a bit strange, and the blending looks uneven to the tweeter.
18L sealed should be giving extremely dry bass. Try reducing the internal volume to 10L and see what that does to the bass.
The lowpass crossover looks a bit strange, and the blending looks uneven to the tweeter.
18L sealed should be giving extremely dry bass. Try reducing the internal volume to 10L and see what that does to the bass.
To make a good crossover is an art.
I would make it active and dsp controlled.
However do not understand R1 is it in mega ohms?!
I would make it active and dsp controlled.
However do not understand R1 is it in mega ohms?!
Scale your spl graph so the major lines represent 5db instead of 20db. Hard to tell much with that scale. Also keep in mind flat anechoic shouldn't be flat at listening position. Generally spl drops slowly with increasing frequency
Can you show frequency response and impedance of each driver separately, in the cabinet, without crossover?
R1 is in milli-ohms. 🙂
Try 1/6th or 1/12th octave averaging on the room response. FYI flat room response generally sounds terrible. Take a look at the Harman Kardon room target curves for some inspiration. I have a big horn system and have had a lot of problems managing in room response.
I am all active and use DSP, it gives you great flexibility and power to get it right or quite often, wrong. Experimentation and iteration will get you there eventually.
Nearfield response looks odd, might want to try multiple measurement positions to see how much of this is mic placement related.
Try 1/6th or 1/12th octave averaging on the room response. FYI flat room response generally sounds terrible. Take a look at the Harman Kardon room target curves for some inspiration. I have a big horn system and have had a lot of problems managing in room response.
I am all active and use DSP, it gives you great flexibility and power to get it right or quite often, wrong. Experimentation and iteration will get you there eventually.
Nearfield response looks odd, might want to try multiple measurement positions to see how much of this is mic placement related.
You forgot to connect tweeter 🙂
I had a two units of STX W.20.140.8.MC and I tried them right now and they are playing fine on this crossover. They lack a bass but its really budget driver. They honestly play like few times beter than those daytons. Im gonna try making enclosure smaller and see how daytons gonna perform
160 dB scale is useless, please post 50 dB version.
Also please post .mdat of a regular on-axis measurement at 70 cm.
Why is your tweeter 6 dB lower than woofer? Is Xsim adjusted for real sensitivities? ES180 is 85 dB/2.83 V, after BSC (baffle step compensation) we are down to 79 dB/2.83 V. SB26STWGC is 93 dB/2.83 V, so for linear response in free space it needs to be attenuated by 14 dB.
Wait, your crossover doesn't seem to include BSC at all. Even with proper mid-tweeter level matching it's likely to sound wrong unless speaker are placed very close to a wall.
ES180TiA is a rather idiosyncratic driver. 3" voice coil, poor efficiency, poor Xmax of just 5 mm. It's like someone wanted to clone old Dynaudio woofer or smth.
Also please post .mdat of a regular on-axis measurement at 70 cm.
Why is your tweeter 6 dB lower than woofer? Is Xsim adjusted for real sensitivities? ES180 is 85 dB/2.83 V, after BSC (baffle step compensation) we are down to 79 dB/2.83 V. SB26STWGC is 93 dB/2.83 V, so for linear response in free space it needs to be attenuated by 14 dB.
Wait, your crossover doesn't seem to include BSC at all. Even with proper mid-tweeter level matching it's likely to sound wrong unless speaker are placed very close to a wall.
Well, they have sensitivity of 90 dB/2.83 V, so much better match with your tweeter.
ES180TiA is a rather idiosyncratic driver. 3" voice coil, poor efficiency, poor Xmax of just 5 mm. It's like someone wanted to clone old Dynaudio woofer or smth.