ulogon - if you are a brick in any wall, then you are not free. Indeed the mass don't want to be free - too much responsibility and too much liability . I saw clearly the 'americanisation' of life happening in the UK in the 60s and 70s' and later on the mainland. A minority got caught up in drugs, first charlie/cocaine and then far worse smack/heroin but the majority became consumer junkies which is where we are today. The overwhelming majority of people in the UK and in the EU are consumer bricks and they are cemented in and as long as they can 'consume' they are 'happy'.
More or less yes, but I always been surprised how in GB the leading class always putted the head of peeople under the water, and nowadays yet. When you see towns like Manchester still 30 years after the WWII, there were nothing similar in the other near european rich nations. This is organised in GB, the leading class just give for the masses : beer pints, tea cups with the face of the monarc and tabloids... to keep all the rest for them (very few) And most of them seem to like it or at least as the only freedom in that brick wall. It is not american fault, it is because the revolution was not finished yet, I always been surprised how it was difficult to eat well in GB for the majority of poor people VS others rich european countries like if GB was poor Polida ! Not wanting to be polemic, but America has not invented industrialisation alone, we were in advance here in Europe. And all the world copied that way of life whatever they say they do not want, do they ?
Aside, all the world now is corrupted by counsumption. Is global warming not the result of that ?
Aside, all the world now is corrupted by counsumption. Is global warming not the result of that ?
Last edited:
MrKlinky - over millions of years the female of the species had to become pragmatic, had to be risk averse in order to create and keep the next generation alive or we would have died out. They are programmed to look for and attract the Alpha male to protect them and enable them to do fulfill their function.
Being a Brit you probably know that the Daily Mail attracts a majority of female readers, it has always been so, my mother read this piece of crap, whilst my father read the Mirror. There always have been women who are nothing like this and it has been hard for them even to go on living, not to be killed which has often been the case in deeply (programmed) religious societies like Christian Europe for centuries or now in Iran which was a go-ahead modern society in the 1950s' but this was destroyed by the insistence of the western oil companies via MI6 and the CIA who installed the Shah and his killer police leading of course to the Ayatollahas. Having met many really intelligent and beautiful Iranian women in the 70s in the UK, what a loss.
Females that have real men for fathers, not males incapable of offering their daughters real affection or a role model turn into strong women that make great partners and mothers, sadly It's been my misfortune to meet so many women who had crap or no fathers until I met my wife late in life. Her relationship with her father who sadly died before I met her was all that it should be, so she turned into a strong but gentle woman, been together now 37 years.
In many western countries due to modern programming women have become very mercenary and from bad experiences with males masquerading as men it is hard to form lasting relationships. Strong women demand strong men not mummies boys who need a woman to wipe their rear end. If only I knew then as a young man what I know now - so it goes.
Being a Brit you probably know that the Daily Mail attracts a majority of female readers, it has always been so, my mother read this piece of crap, whilst my father read the Mirror. There always have been women who are nothing like this and it has been hard for them even to go on living, not to be killed which has often been the case in deeply (programmed) religious societies like Christian Europe for centuries or now in Iran which was a go-ahead modern society in the 1950s' but this was destroyed by the insistence of the western oil companies via MI6 and the CIA who installed the Shah and his killer police leading of course to the Ayatollahas. Having met many really intelligent and beautiful Iranian women in the 70s in the UK, what a loss.
Females that have real men for fathers, not males incapable of offering their daughters real affection or a role model turn into strong women that make great partners and mothers, sadly It's been my misfortune to meet so many women who had crap or no fathers until I met my wife late in life. Her relationship with her father who sadly died before I met her was all that it should be, so she turned into a strong but gentle woman, been together now 37 years.
In many western countries due to modern programming women have become very mercenary and from bad experiences with males masquerading as men it is hard to form lasting relationships. Strong women demand strong men not mummies boys who need a woman to wipe their rear end. If only I knew then as a young man what I know now - so it goes.
The first country to change from an agrarian to an industrial society was the UK - it was way ahead of the rest of Europe, France didn't really industrialise until after WW11. It was this industrialisation that enabled England to dominate first the other Celtic countries - Scotland/Wales/Ireland and then other empires. They controlled the seas, today this domination is continued via the USA in the air. In WW11 once the Luftwaffe lost control of the skies it was effectively over in 1942. If the Luftwaffe had domination, the Normandy landings would have been impossible as in the Ardenne offensive in 1944.
I think you have a 'rose tinted' view of the past, especially about food. The working classes of Europe as a whole were very badly fed until after WW11, why do you think so many Europeans emigrated to the USA/Oz/Canada/South America.
Global warming isn't about industrialisation, it's about gross over population across the planet. If the world population was around 1 billion there wouldn't be a problem but it isn't, it's 8 billion and rising.
Nah i am not rose nore red about history, you are not talking with a beginner or illeterate here. You just forgot something in your ideal description : it was not GB as a people, it was a very few leading class that had all (and still) the power. GB was always terrible and still late (that's always among the worst country in Europe for working class and see how the recent leaders recently were liar) to exploit their working class. Why do you believe so much in your country want still to live in France, Spain, USA, Italy, Holland, as soon they can (have monney enough and buy a house or have a better life cause not being in that elite).
I do not understand why you are talking of peasants and industrialisation as it was as worse after, just swapping from the fields to factory to home then to home to factories. Indeed Italy(ies) (starving) and Germany for illustration had food problems, then all of us after the WWs. Peasants class was still opresed vey late in Germany. Indeed Ireland and England and italy for illustration were so straving then many bet to a better futur, at least modern ships because of modernisation permitted that. We have to remember indeed GB was very efficient to exploit modern mechanical inventions. France litteratly lost opportunities, very true.
I do not understand why you are talking of peasants and industrialisation as it was as worse after, just swapping from the fields to factory to home then to home to factories. Indeed Italy(ies) (starving) and Germany for illustration had food problems, then all of us after the WWs. Peasants class was still opresed vey late in Germany. Indeed Ireland and England and italy for illustration were so straving then many bet to a better futur, at least modern ships because of modernisation permitted that. We have to remember indeed GB was very efficient to exploit modern mechanical inventions. France litteratly lost opportunities, very true.
Last edited:
Not true, I could be a brick in the wall of free people.
The wall is a metaphor, nothing more.
Last edited:
I think we have a language problem here. I saw clearly how the Americanisation of life was changing life in the UK in the 1960s' - this was when 'consumerism' began to take hold (later in Europe the mainland). Do you know that over 600,000 French live in London, lots of Italians as well from the 1960s'. German and American industrialisation couldn't have happened if both countries had to not put up huge tariffs against UK industrial products. The German war machine would have gone on indefinitely but for revolution in Germany in 1917 that was the precursor for all that was to come from 1930.
So many aspects of industrialisation were created in the UK - the steam engine/steam locomotive/the pneumatic tire/ hydro electricity/modern mining techniques/cotton mills. And a lot of these were Scottish inventions - the steam engine/steam locomotive/hydro electricity/the pneumatic tire/mining techniques. The English like to refer to themselves as British - they are not descended from the Britonni a Celtic people, they are Aryans. The same in France where the vast majority of people are of Celtic/Euskadi origin not Aryan Franks who got very lucky at the battle of Tours against the civilised Arab Semites.
I cannot agree with ulogon - the wall is very real and has been created over centuries to become a very real pyschological barrier to living in a real world - it's how people are controlled. Wilhelm Reich wrote excellent books - the Mass Pyschology of Fascism and Listen Little Man - his books were burnt in fascist Austria and Germany and later in the USA by Christian fanatics and he died in prison there.
nah the first steam engines were not invented in Britania, ok there were big enhancements there that gave some critical advences and permited very expensive steam motors to be sold (our prefered Watt here for instance)
I am not sure chance is the word, nore civilised arabian sémites. What happen there is the stop of razzias of mercenaries commanded by an andalousian emir, very mixed: jews and berberes mozarabes, some christians too (yup true), it was not really still a conquest invasion since things degenarate before for them in Aquitaine ! It was rapid plunders (razzias). Imho, this battle was a little exagerated but was the foundation of a national history later and made good songs ! There is no doubt the english industrialisation was the beginning of things being massives while it pop uped everywhere since ideas circulation and mobile letters printing.
well I am afraid you're rigth about the wall... btw a roman invention in Britania before the symbol of the movie and the bricks !
For a more personal point of view, the jewel of PF is Wish you were here ! I never understood all the hysteria around DSOTM.
I am not sure chance is the word, nore civilised arabian sémites. What happen there is the stop of razzias of mercenaries commanded by an andalousian emir, very mixed: jews and berberes mozarabes, some christians too (yup true), it was not really still a conquest invasion since things degenarate before for them in Aquitaine ! It was rapid plunders (razzias). Imho, this battle was a little exagerated but was the foundation of a national history later and made good songs ! There is no doubt the english industrialisation was the beginning of things being massives while it pop uped everywhere since ideas circulation and mobile letters printing.
well I am afraid you're rigth about the wall... btw a roman invention in Britania before the symbol of the movie and the bricks !
For a more personal point of view, the jewel of PF is Wish you were here ! I never understood all the hysteria around DSOTM.
Last edited:
No problem at all, I perfectly understand it since the freedom is not only the most important state, but it may be also a personal concept.
Just to partially describe my view, I believe there is the freedom of the body and the freedom of the mind: often they go hand in hand, but it is not always said to happen.
The body can be imprisoned by many events that I don't think they must list because they are quite obvious and whose liberation, if it exists, is relatively easy to recognize.
Freedom of the mind may be disconnected from that of the body, and its imprisonment is much more difficult to recognize.
The illusion of freedom is widespread and there are things from which it is impossible to be free.
Your wrong on both counts - Thomas Savery built the first steam engine which used in mines to pump out water in Karnow/Cornwall and Stevenson built the first steam powered locomotive - the Rocket.
ulogon - Not sure how the 'Western mind' got decoupled from that of the East but it definitely did. 'Thought is not reality, only reality is. The Moody Blues - 'I think, therefore I am' - the ego validating itself.
Why did so many westerners have bad acid trips because the ego - your personal identity aka your past history of events/memories begins to disappear up it's own rear end, ergo it dies (unfortunately it returns at the end of the trip) and what is left is pure consciousness - there is no separation between consciousness and everything else - it's all one field of awareness. As it dies the ego becomes terrified because it knows it is dying. If it 'lets go' the fear dies. But for many they cannot let go and so begins the 'bad trip'.
Some years ago when I was living in Spain I was returning over hard baked clay ground on my bike. Normally I would lower the pressure in my tyres for better grip. This particular day I didn't, I lost control and consciousness. I had hit my head on the concrete like ground and suffered concussion - I came to and for some minutes had an amazing experience - I had no identity, no realisation of being anything at all, let alone human,male, name - zero. I was experiencing total connection with everything around me. Nothing had an identity, everything was just reality. I suppose it lasted about 15 minutes. I stood up and just experienced this utter totality - there was no naming, no compartmentalism - just one field of reality. Gradually the ego/identity returned, the ego realised what had happened and 'processed' the whole event. I would love to repeat this experience without having to suffer concussion in order to achieve it.
Your identity no. 457/621 or Jack/Pierre - all your personal memories/experiences, good bad or indifferent are the filters/WALL that separate the particular person from the rest of the real world. Take the word - individual - it's root meaning is to be undivided from everything else aka indivisible. However it has become to mean the exact opposite - I stand alone, I am separate from everything else. Whatever society you are born into you will be programmed by parents, by education, by media, by everything that makes up your particular society to see reality in a particular way but of course it isn't reality at all - you live inside this wall. That's why PF got it right - hey teacher leave those kids alone - spot on.
Why did so many westerners have bad acid trips because the ego - your personal identity aka your past history of events/memories begins to disappear up it's own rear end, ergo it dies (unfortunately it returns at the end of the trip) and what is left is pure consciousness - there is no separation between consciousness and everything else - it's all one field of awareness. As it dies the ego becomes terrified because it knows it is dying. If it 'lets go' the fear dies. But for many they cannot let go and so begins the 'bad trip'.
Some years ago when I was living in Spain I was returning over hard baked clay ground on my bike. Normally I would lower the pressure in my tyres for better grip. This particular day I didn't, I lost control and consciousness. I had hit my head on the concrete like ground and suffered concussion - I came to and for some minutes had an amazing experience - I had no identity, no realisation of being anything at all, let alone human,male, name - zero. I was experiencing total connection with everything around me. Nothing had an identity, everything was just reality. I suppose it lasted about 15 minutes. I stood up and just experienced this utter totality - there was no naming, no compartmentalism - just one field of reality. Gradually the ego/identity returned, the ego realised what had happened and 'processed' the whole event. I would love to repeat this experience without having to suffer concussion in order to achieve it.
Your identity no. 457/621 or Jack/Pierre - all your personal memories/experiences, good bad or indifferent are the filters/WALL that separate the particular person from the rest of the real world. Take the word - individual - it's root meaning is to be undivided from everything else aka indivisible. However it has become to mean the exact opposite - I stand alone, I am separate from everything else. Whatever society you are born into you will be programmed by parents, by education, by media, by everything that makes up your particular society to see reality in a particular way but of course it isn't reality at all - you live inside this wall. That's why PF got it right - hey teacher leave those kids alone - spot on.
Of course not fellow...re open your books or stop to read wikipedia...I will give you some elements if interrested. Yes for tje train but not first piston vehicle whixh was the century before with tje first wheel vehicle with a piston engine. I let you read...again if interrested ...🙂
That was pretty much how I saw the album's message. I was a senior in college at the time that album came out and it was not the best of times in my life - I was a bonafide emotional mess. I couldnt help but notice a strange affinity for that album; what it talked about, you know, stuff like inexplicable feelings that return periodically, that you have no control over, but you know at some level isnt "you".
I remember the Vietnam Vet living across the street got hooked by the helicopter noises on that album pretty badly. That album had its ways of finding a way into you, which I suspect is true for many people.
They were building a subway station at a popular intersection in Buffalo, NY near where I was living, surrounding the construction site 360 with a big green wall. Of course I had to scrawl "The Wall" on it with grey spray paint. Didnt bother with the bricks detail...
@Black Stuart I too had that same experience. A bike, newspapers, ice on the sidewalk and then I sat up just as a bird alighted on a branch in front of me. But I didn't know it was a bird. I just watched this magnificent thing, illuminated in front of me. The whole world was not present just that creature. When it flew away my head turned to follow and the world returned. What a wonderful experience and followed by such a sense of loss as it dissipated. I too would like to experience it again and feel honored that I experienced it once. The Wall reminded me of that experience.