In reality, which is where I firmly stand, some people are just not cut out for putzing around with electronics.
Asides from the lack of experience, the lack of any sort of accredited reading material, and no, I don't mean the endless internet guru blogs, some people just want to ignore all that and dip their paws right into something quite beyond even what a professional like me calls an easy task to figure out.
Doing some searches for info, I've accidentally come across some internet blogs that sound like a bunch of head-strong children, dumb teens, with idiotic replies to each other, and obviously not knowing what they're talking about.
That is a fact, and shows me clearly what a part of society has turned into. - brats.
I'd hate to see this site contain such behavior, bad enough that young society has gotten so rotten.
So no, I'm against fostering those types.
You can stay as compassionate as you want towards those types, but don't expect others to agree.
Include a list of libraries?
It certainly is handy to know the level of knowledge of the person whose question you try to answer. For example, deriving transfer functions won't help much if the person hasn't a clue what a transfer function is, but it may be perfectly suitable when you answer a question from someone who does know that.
Still, someone on a Dutch valve radio forum once proposed that everyone should indicate whether they were newbies or experienced. I had experience with designing parts of radio chips, but I had repaired only a few valve radios. My knowledge of the history of valve radios was also quite limited compared to the experts on the forum. No idea what to indicate...
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There is also still the category of people who call themselves experienced or at least act like they are, but they are actually still newbies.
I guess that's what @wiseoldtech tries to explain.
Maybe the wording is a bit strong, but I also really understand the frustration when wannabe backseat engineers are getting involved.
Anyway, it all depends on attitude.
Some people are not cut for certain hobbies, that's true.
In fact, I have some good friends who would immediately admit that.
But they are just in for the joy and "magic" of it all.
As long as people are honest and aware about it, that is 100% fine.
Every person can just enjoy any hobby if they want.
I personally think a newbie topic, or even a newbie categorie is a nice idea.
In the beginning a lot of things can be very overwhelming, we all have been there.
I guess that's what @wiseoldtech tries to explain.
Maybe the wording is a bit strong, but I also really understand the frustration when wannabe backseat engineers are getting involved.
Anyway, it all depends on attitude.
Some people are not cut for certain hobbies, that's true.
In fact, I have some good friends who would immediately admit that.
But they are just in for the joy and "magic" of it all.
As long as people are honest and aware about it, that is 100% fine.
Every person can just enjoy any hobby if they want.
I personally think a newbie topic, or even a newbie categorie is a nice idea.
In the beginning a lot of things can be very overwhelming, we all have been there.
Imagine for a minute, that this site and it's members is dedicated towards health care.
Discussing subjects like serious diseases, illnesses, surgeries, heart problems, etc..
Electronics, and encompassing repairs, modifications, failure prevention, etc, is basically in the same league.
Along comes a snotnose wannabe with no experience... but tries to act like they know something.
It's a known common thing, as we all know.
Once they use wrong descriptions of items, the experienced soon know who they're dealing with.
Yes, the DIY crowd is diverse, and you'll always have those 'intruders', for lack of a better word to deal with.
I've even had those 'intruders' come into my repair shop on occasion, however dealing with them In Person is a much easier job.
While the internet is a vast place of information and trading it, it can never replace or compete with In Person situations.
Discussing subjects like serious diseases, illnesses, surgeries, heart problems, etc..
Electronics, and encompassing repairs, modifications, failure prevention, etc, is basically in the same league.
Along comes a snotnose wannabe with no experience... but tries to act like they know something.
It's a known common thing, as we all know.
Once they use wrong descriptions of items, the experienced soon know who they're dealing with.
Yes, the DIY crowd is diverse, and you'll always have those 'intruders', for lack of a better word to deal with.
I've even had those 'intruders' come into my repair shop on occasion, however dealing with them In Person is a much easier job.
While the internet is a vast place of information and trading it, it can never replace or compete with In Person situations.
The ultimate irony is that for at least some of us, you fall squarely into the description of precisely what you are trying to "save" us from.
@leadbelly "The ultimate irony is that for at least some of us, you fall squarely into the description of precisely what you are trying to "save" us from."
Your opinion of course.
And you know what they say about opinions.
And stubborn, insistent individuals.
And.... you're responses are clear indication of what I was saying before.
I rest my case.
Your opinion of course.
And you know what they say about opinions.
And stubborn, insistent individuals.
And.... you're responses are clear indication of what I was saying before.
I rest my case.
I don't follow?
Obviously it depends what people are building, but most electronics fall under the low voltage or extra low voltage (LVD and ELV), which in inherently safe.
As in, not much more unsafe than handling a knife for chopping tomatoes or any other general DIY stuff.
It's most definitely not in the same league as (serious) health related topics.
This is obviously a little different for high energy circuitry, tube/valve amplifiers (CAT I environment) and working on primary side (CAT II environment). Maybe that's what you're referring too I think?
But yeah, the snotnose wannabe frustration I can totally understand and relate too.
It's the main reason I haven't been active on the web lately, respect seems to be totally gone.
It's sad and very unfortunate for those who are respectful and DO want to learn and understand.
I just bought "The Art Of Electronics". I have others but having multiple sources of information can fill in some of the gaps.
At this point in time, my restorations have been for the most part, "craft" projects. Testing voltages per the schematics and replacing components as needed is as far as I have gone. Instead of posting blindly and hoping for the best whenever I don't understand something, I'll dig into a text book first so that If I do have to ask a question, the answers will be more meaningful.
bedrock602 said:
I have the first edition. It is an excellent introduction because the theory is limited to the essentials needed for electronic design, and a lot of practical knowledge is presented.
Ed
I think a kind of library of 'must read' article or books could help.
I mean for things like tube Norman Crowhurst's articles, Nelson's manual and articles for amplifiers, Rod Elliott's site ( ESP) for anything audio related....
It could help to differentiate people looking for help and the one asking for others to do their homework in place of them...
In that sense i could see an use for a beginner section: 'i studyed that by myself but don't understand, could you help me?....'
A section with beginners talking to beginners would looks a lot like blind people indicating the direction to other blind people... 🙂
I mean for things like tube Norman Crowhurst's articles, Nelson's manual and articles for amplifiers, Rod Elliott's site ( ESP) for anything audio related....
It could help to differentiate people looking for help and the one asking for others to do their homework in place of them...
In that sense i could see an use for a beginner section: 'i studyed that by myself but don't understand, could you help me?....'
A section with beginners talking to beginners would looks a lot like blind people indicating the direction to other blind people... 🙂
Everyone is a beginner once and only the deluded know everything.
I found that this place is more like - you do it yourself and others will chip in.
I think the noise is more people asking many questions in separate threads rather that posting about a specific project and then blogging to that thread and letting people chime In. Perhaps a beginner's project area may be a good step?
Perhaps the top stickies in the beginners area will be:
a) The recapping thread - "Is it broke?"
b) The unobtainum power cord thread - unicorns with power cords stuck where the sun doesn't shine
c) The tube-rolling thread - worth it if the rest of the system is..
d) The reality of bits and jitter (why your DAC is lying to you)
That should short cut most of the beginner questions 😀 (the serious point here is that the opening posts in those would essentially lay out the reality and useful information- it's up to the intelligence of the reader then if they decide to make use of the very good advice).
I found that this place is more like - you do it yourself and others will chip in.
I think the noise is more people asking many questions in separate threads rather that posting about a specific project and then blogging to that thread and letting people chime In. Perhaps a beginner's project area may be a good step?
Perhaps the top stickies in the beginners area will be:
a) The recapping thread - "Is it broke?"
b) The unobtainum power cord thread - unicorns with power cords stuck where the sun doesn't shine
c) The tube-rolling thread - worth it if the rest of the system is..
d) The reality of bits and jitter (why your DAC is lying to you)
That should short cut most of the beginner questions 😀 (the serious point here is that the opening posts in those would essentially lay out the reality and useful information- it's up to the intelligence of the reader then if they decide to make use of the very good advice).
See, you're one of the intelligent and reasonable ones.. doing things the better way....educating yourself, prepping, before any 'hands on' business.
That's the key to success.
When I was younger, I took up tech-schooling for what I wound up doing for decades as a professional.
I would have never made it if I merely spoke with others on the internet (since back then there was no internet).
I had strict instructors in a classroom, books for reading and studying.
Granted, not everyone wants to have a 'certificate' hanging on the wall as I do, but nevertheless it's pretty damn idiotic to just 'jump in' and disregard potential dangers and to wind up with a piece of butchered-up junk as a result.
I was actually thinking that topics focusing on the "meat and potatoes" of electronics as related to audio would be more beneficial
ohm's law
power supplies
amplification
basic test equipment
building and analyzing simple audio circuits that use discrete components (no IC's)
motor types and how they work
etc., etc.
I learned a lot by reading circuit descriptions in DIY electronics magazines. But that was back when such magazines existed. In my pre-teens, I learned quite a bit from electronics books in the children's library. Maybe that's still a thing one could do. The main challenge I faced was that I quickly reached the end of the shelf at the local library. Then the next stop is a college/university library. And let's face it. Many college textbooks are useless. The ones I still use today are the ones that offered good explanations of the topic from a practical perspective. You have to go through quite a few textbooks before you find one that works for you. That requires access to a good library.
Tom
Tom
Building simple audio circuits that do include ICs (opamps).
Electronic filters (starting with RC filters).
Feedback and stability.
Tom
^ but we have access to almost anything with internet now?
I think there is no more excuses to not look by yourself for such things.
That said i agree not all books are an easy access. We all now some great teachers at all levels no?
I mean you are not looking for the same things when you are absolute beginner, advanced or an expert.
I think this is where our experience could really help newbie, by offering a selection of 'good' text.
I think there is no more excuses to not look by yourself for such things.
That said i agree not all books are an easy access. We all now some great teachers at all levels no?
I mean you are not looking for the same things when you are absolute beginner, advanced or an expert.
I think this is where our experience could really help newbie, by offering a selection of 'good' text.
Sitting at an electronics test bench is not the same as "barn raising".
It's nice to have a place where you can share your projects and get input from others. The combination of self study and community involvement can accelerate the learning process.
It's nice to have a place where you can share your projects and get input from others. The combination of self study and community involvement can accelerate the learning process.
I've still got box loads of Practical Electronics, Everyday Electronics, Electronics Today International and Radio Constructor magazines in my garage.
These publications provided a firm foundation to my early diy audio exploits.
Fortunately for today's beginner, these titles are archived in the UK- Modern Era Technology section of the World Radio History Site:
https://worldradiohistory.com/Home-UK.htm