I know what people are saying in regard to small amps sounding better. However, I think that is too general of a statement. Small amps allow you to get away with a lot, design-wise, than you can with higher-powered large amps. So there are advantages and disadvantages. Also, how many large amps can one afford to build and move around?
I personally like between 15-80 watts which I know is kind of a broad range.
I personally like between 15-80 watts which I know is kind of a broad range.
I agree that we simply cannot say small, weak, amps sound better. There are several qualifications, though.
Firstly, listening levels: as pointed out in this thread, many of us live in places where we cannot listen at more than 70 dB. My system now is putting out 70 dB at 1 meter. It is different when you are a teenager, as I remember, your parents will occasionally tell you it is too loud, so you turn it down. I am pretty sure I used to listen at 80 dB or more, and by the way it can damage your hearing after 8 hours. A person with a family will tell you listening loud is not practical - you may not hear when you are called either on the phone or otherwise, or it may disturb other people even outside your home.
I think of near- field listening as listening to a pair of large, open headphones, only better. That works.
Secondly cost: low powered systems are very cheap, and it is sometimes interesting to see what can be done with a low powered, cheap system, that you can then recommend to someone who does not have the means to buy expensive equipment. Making the best use of your amplifier, speaker matching and placement are all important lessons that can be learned with a cheap system. My personal impression is that at low volume levels and close to the speakers (large headphones at a distance) low powered amplifiers can enable the listener to really hear the detail of the music and enjoy it.
Finally, I think I need to describe what systems I have either had access to or owned in the past. Some of them were high powered and brand new, possibly state of the art. I hope to post a graphic of that some time soon. I liked listening loud, and still do, however there is no possibility of doing that anymore, except in a dedicated off site room somewhere.
For normal listening levels, 80 dB, of course. Maybe you could give us some examples? Forsi?
In that case, may I ask, what is your experience with Class-D amplifiers? They have always sounded metallic and clinical, maybe good for playing Metallica.
As for distortion, let's do a test. Listen for distortion
Distortion test
At what level does distortion become noticeable?
At what level does it become intolerable? (I can't listen to this)
I will let you know my answers later.
Here is another one.
Maybe needs a thread of its own.
Distortion test
At what level does distortion become noticeable?
At what level does it become intolerable? (I can't listen to this)
I will let you know my answers later.
Here is another one.
Maybe needs a thread of its own.
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Some amplifiers can reduce speaker distortion by a factor of 10-15dB, just by having the right output impedance at the right frequency. For me, liking harmonic distortion is still an unproven myth.
Low volume levels in general let you hear details you just can’t hear at high volume. The ear is nonlinear too and distorts just like loudspeakers driven past x-max. Your brain may still interpret it as clean - but the distortion level that’s tolerable is much higher. You can sort of look past frequency response error when it’s shaking your insides, too. The fact that deep notes and percussive impact “feel” deeper becomes more important than what one actually hears. But at that point the detail is GONE, even with the best of systems. PA rigs work just as well when the listening level gets high enough because they’ll do the “impact” better.
When listening up close to the speakers (ie near field monitoring) you don’t need high power, even to get 90 dB. That situation also remedies 99.9% of room interaction problems. The reflected sound is simply reduced in level and the brain largely ignores it.
The “dedicated off site room” here just happens to be the next building over, 100 feet away. So technically still on-site. In the HOME itself, a little 14 watt per channel tube amp would give all the volume required - but I’m still using sand amps to drive my main system because it has impedance all over the map. And I really like them. Not much power required anymore, and the Yamaha P3500 has been retired to one of my PA amp racks. The speakers under construction at the moment are designed to be fairly constant impedance to work well with those little tube amps.
Whether tube or solid state small amps are just fun to build. They work well within their limits, typically work the FIRST TIME (even a brand new design), don’t require crazy safety precautions during construction, and don’t require throwing gobs of money or other resources at them.
Why do you presume low power amps are ‘weak’?
If there’s one thing I’ve learned designing and building high and low power amps, selling some of them, and attending hifi shows as an exhibitor, it’s to leave my prejudices at the door.
😊
Isn't it what Nelson Pass's Firstwatt is all about: exploring the sound of different 'simple' profile of harmonic distortion mix ?
Abstract do you know we have multiband tools which allow to give the 'right' kind of distortion in the right 'amount' on the different frequency bands ( at mastering stage)?
Bonsai, what you described about your low distortion 200w amp annd the tiny amp remind me of the first time i heard a push pull sub going very low.
It had a lot less fun and wow factor than smaller nearfields... until i noticed details on acoustic instruments which i haven't heard before.
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You are very fortunate. I am very fortunate listening in nearfield at my desk to the Wharfedale Diamond IVs powered by a 8002D Bluetooth speaker with speaker out connected in series to the speakers. Remember these are songs I have been listening to over 40 years over all sorts of systems and they never sounded better. Maybe I did not appreciate what I had.
We had one similar to this in the home 1983 to 1989. With a graphic equalizer as well, and speakers right next to each other since I knew nothing about stereo except with headphones. It sounded good, lots of bass, played loud. Vinyl always had less bass than tapes, I noticed, which was annoying.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/technics/v303.shtml
Today, my ideal system would have bookshelf speakers on stands, well into the room, and a single amplifier with digital sources. That's it.
The rest of the money will be spent on buying CDs before they disappear.
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I still listen to one of the big brother of these one ( but triamped with dsp) SB-M2.
Their drivers where 'special', aluminium honeycomb flat membrane.
They still sound great ( dispite their trade off not with drivers but the 'acoustic design' of mine).
That is your view and extremely bad idea when it comes to sound , my amp is 425 watts a side into 4 ohms and my speakers are 15 inch woofers with horn mids and tweeters and it sounds excellent with the type of fidelity a small amp and speakers can never reproduce this system can clearly reproduce a 20hz tone with athority and clarity that a small system can never achieve , when am listening to jazz I want to experience the music not miss the notes that a small system will never reproduce ..
Ahh yes the flat membrane speakers - remember the advertisements in the newspapers (in Singapore at that time) and wondered what happened to disk shaped speaker diaphragms. Turns out they don't make them anymore and that they sound excellent. Maybe the surface activator units are a newer version of these? It's really unfortunate that a breakthrough technology simply becomes lost to the mists of time. Honeycomb will be light and stiff.
What is it with these? These are solid state - class AB? Is it true that good transistors are no longer available?
Back to topic: Listnening on my low powered amp, I keep thinking: this music is so beautiful. How can this happen unless I can hear most of the sounds that the producer mixed in? The Diamond IV is one great compromise of a speaker, I must say.
What is it with these? These are solid state - class AB? Is it true that good transistors are no longer available?
Back to topic: Listnening on my low powered amp, I keep thinking: this music is so beautiful. How can this happen unless I can hear most of the sounds that the producer mixed in? The Diamond IV is one great compromise of a speaker, I must say.
Rick@70. You are using the quote function incorrectly, making your posts look odd. Please learn to use it properly so we don’t have to edit your posts
to YOUR view of sound. This is an entertainment format. If someone is entertained but cannot hear the sound of the lead guitarist's pet gerbil farting in the middle of a solo does it matter ? (spoiler no it doesn't)
Can you carry out a conversation while listening at the levels you listen at? Small systems can not play that loud.
BTW, can the OP tell us what levels he is listening at? Your phone DB meter app should give an indication.
Then I have to ask you about your speakers, if you don't mind, the few speakers I have heard need some wattage to make them work.