Dear Members,
is there a way of using more than 8 DAC channels with a PC for a Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 setup ?
No preferred selection of DAC chips, e.g. AKM-based (4493) 8ch DAC-s connected to the PC onto 3 USB ports and streaming 23 DSD64 signals into them, all synced.
This would be a "high-end" version maybe which might also sound with 2.0 stereo pretty decent if speakers are big (and/or well configured).
But even the most simple setup, the version with passive crossover speaker does need more than 8 channels.
Yes, we could use some home cinema PRE but not sure how it performs in 2.0 (and lack DSD most probably, with DTS/Dolby Processing done on the PC).
Besides the Okto DAC 8 PRO, a Topping DM7 would also be a nice suitable DAC, but both lack the CLOCK IN/OUT to be able to share (and use) the very same clock for their internals.
is there a way of using more than 8 DAC channels with a PC for a Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 setup ?
- All crossed either via analog-electronic crossovers or passively, this would require 12 DAC channels already. With the smaller 5.1.4 setup, still 10 channels required.
- All crossed on the PC digitally: depending on the number of ways of the individual speakers, with all (except sub) being 2-way, at least 23 DAC channels would be required 😳
- Using 3pcs of 8ch "home audio" DACs is NOT possible due to lack of CLOCK IN/OUTs on them and having the same clock for all of the devices is a crucial prerequisite for such a setup
No preferred selection of DAC chips, e.g. AKM-based (4493) 8ch DAC-s connected to the PC onto 3 USB ports and streaming 23 DSD64 signals into them, all synced.
This would be a "high-end" version maybe which might also sound with 2.0 stereo pretty decent if speakers are big (and/or well configured).
But even the most simple setup, the version with passive crossover speaker does need more than 8 channels.
Yes, we could use some home cinema PRE but not sure how it performs in 2.0 (and lack DSD most probably, with DTS/Dolby Processing done on the PC).
Besides the Okto DAC 8 PRO, a Topping DM7 would also be a nice suitable DAC, but both lack the CLOCK IN/OUT to be able to share (and use) the very same clock for their internals.
Hi,
Pro gear through the use of asio, gives everything you want.
Even in 1 ru:
https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/orion-32-gen-3/
If you need more:
https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/galaxy-64-synergy-core/
Those are only examples, Prism Sound ( offer dsd),Motu, Rme,Focusrite ( they offer Dante enabled converters), Merging, etc,etc, all have equivalent on offer.
Pro gear through the use of asio, gives everything you want.
Even in 1 ru:
https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/orion-32-gen-3/
If you need more:
https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/galaxy-64-synergy-core/
Those are only examples, Prism Sound ( offer dsd),Motu, Rme,Focusrite ( they offer Dante enabled converters), Merging, etc,etc, all have equivalent on offer.
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Not sure, if your suggestions cover AKM, DSD and clock sync at the same time for let's say 3x 8ch but I'm studying the links, thanks.
planet10 if you could share this "fairly simple", maybe I'll be willing to buy a Mac. 😎
planet10 if you could share this "fairly simple", maybe I'll be willing to buy a Mac. 😎
You can make mltiple USB DACs appear as a single one. If you are fortunate to get a ThunderBolt (FireWire) connected DAC it happens automatically.
so 3 8 channel DACs would appear as a 24 channel DAC.
dave
so 3 8 channel DACs would appear as a 24 channel DAC.
dave
I would hope. That is something the DAC needs to deal with since USB is packets, things should be better with ThunderBolt.
dave
dave
Easy peasey! Use a pro-audio interface that includes ADAT. For example, the very affordable Behringer UMC1820 (has 10 analog outputs on the rear) can be combined with the Behringer ADA8200 (which has an additional 8 outputs) to give you 20 analog output channels at 48kHz and 24 bits. These two are both very affordable and you can buy them used. There are other more "high end" combinations as well as some pro-audio interfaces that support as many channels as you need in one unit, for example the MOTU 16A has 16 analog inputs and outputs on it, plus ADAT if you want even more.
BTW I would not advise trying to combine several DACs. This often leads to synchronicity problems that come about from a variety of sources.
BTW I would not advise trying to combine several DACs. This often leads to synchronicity problems that come about from a variety of sources.
Well, this are the tools used to record/mix/ master the music you then listen as end user.
Clock sync is standard on pro gear, DSD not* but if you really need it Prism Sound offer with ADA-8XR ( and there must be some other rare item integrating it), chips manufacturer is not something i put interest in it ( right or wrong): last time i made a comparison between 'top notch pro converters' differences where so subtle between models worth 2000/6000euros... It was 2012 and i choosen not to 'upgrade' my dac ( Dolby Lake Dlp) as it wasn't worth the expense...
It's easy on pc to have lots of outputs: i already gave yhe answer about it: ASIO.
Drivers for pro use, stable, bypass windows... i run a 32i/o home studio setup ( on XP!) since 10 years now... run a local radio station 24/365 for 5 years with same number of i/o on another pc ( Windows 7 Rme adat card ( 32i/o) to Yamaha 02r digital mixing desk)... and now plan to skip the use of a soundcard to Dante benefit in my home setup ( Lake is Dante enabled): no more soundcard, Asio drivers 64I/O on 1 rj45 cat5e cable, 0,8ms latency overall,...
* which raise the question: if the top notch pro gear doesn't integrate it where is the need for it? I mean which records really benefit from it? I know of some records which were digitized from tape to DSD but they are few and 'niche' genre ( often jazz for Japanese market...). One will have to proove me real benefits of it for me to invest into this... but ymmv.
Edit: adat, aes, madi,... all are different protocol of multichanel digital transmission. They are for most of them equivalent in practice if correctly implemented. But those are older technology: now it's network age.
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Very affordable because they are VERY cheaply built.
But the pro and semi-pro stuff is where you will find DACs with ThunderBolt and lots of DAC channels out of the box.
dave
Yes, to each their own. That's why I suggested both a cheap option (via the two Behringer units) and a better performing and more expensive solution (the MOTU 16A).
I actually own two each of the UMC1820 and ADA8200. I bought them with the fantasy of using them for doing tapering and shading of a line array, with 20 channels per side. I still haven't "gotten around to" that project...
I use one of the UMC1820 every day as the interface on an active speaker project. Compared to the best offerings it is a little noisier, but sound wise I think it is OK, is very accessible for the DIYer, and works great under Linux.
I use one of the UMC1820 every day as the interface on an active speaker project. Compared to the best offerings it is a little noisier, but sound wise I think it is OK, is very accessible for the DIYer, and works great under Linux.
CharlieLaub,
I agree Behringer are ok. Not worst than a Dcx in my view. They are a nice entry to computer processing and multiamp systems.
And yes for linux drivers are availlable. It's not the case for most pro gear ( well in fact i suspect it is availlable but OEM restricted).
If you are in need of any help about your line array i could help to set up something manageable through a DAW.
I agree Behringer are ok. Not worst than a Dcx in my view. They are a nice entry to computer processing and multiamp systems.
And yes for linux drivers are availlable. It's not the case for most pro gear ( well in fact i suspect it is availlable but OEM restricted).
If you are in need of any help about your line array i could help to set up something manageable through a DAW.
I already have all the processing capabilities in my LADSPA plugins and Gstreamer or other host under Linux. What I don't have is lots and lots of drivers that would be suitable for such a project. It might be something like a flat CBT with DSP based alignment. Maybe it will come to fruition in the not to distant future but first I need to work on downsizing prior to an upcoming move across the pond.
IMO clock sync is not sample sync. Multiple clock-synced devices will run at the same pace, but will be offset sample-wise. Also at every start the offset will be different. For many use cases that may not matter though.
Dante can get you 1000+ output channels over Ethernet. You can then run a stage box (or many) to convert this to analog. https://www.audinate.com/products/dante-enabled/all/i-o-interfaces?lang=z
DSD is something that can be useful with some dacs. Regarding ADCs, IIUC all the modern oversampling audio ADCs actually digitize to 'raw' mode, which is maybe 5-bits at a very high sample rate. That signal can then be converted inside the ADC chip to DSD or to PCM. In some cases the conversion can be done externally, say, in an FPGA. So, a DSD ADC is probably not exactly that at some level. Hi-res PCM is perfectly fine for most purposes so long as you take sufficient care with the quality of any processing. Conversion to DSD matters later if working with a DAC that sounds better if playing DSD.
Most clock sync is like Word Clock, a frame rate clock, not a bit clock. Historically a PLL was used to track Word Clock in order to produce any necessary clock signals locally. Thus, jitter was more of an issue. Nowadays ASRCs sound pretty darn good, better than Word Clock sync, so ASRCs are pretty common. In SPDIF/AES to USB ADC interfaces, ASRC is commonly done on the incoming SPDIF/AES streams. However, if you are really picky about SQ then ASRC will cause some small distortion and may leave some small jitter. FIFO buffering overcomes the problems of ASRC, but at the price of introducing a possibly significant time delay. Thus there is nothing better than to run all data converters from the same master crystal clock. It can be done pretty well but it can add cost and complexity. By that point you are out of the consumer market and into pro gear in racks, which again adds to cost.
Most clock sync is like Word Clock, a frame rate clock, not a bit clock. Historically a PLL was used to track Word Clock in order to produce any necessary clock signals locally. Thus, jitter was more of an issue. Nowadays ASRCs sound pretty darn good, better than Word Clock sync, so ASRCs are pretty common. In SPDIF/AES to USB ADC interfaces, ASRC is commonly done on the incoming SPDIF/AES streams. However, if you are really picky about SQ then ASRC will cause some small distortion and may leave some small jitter. FIFO buffering overcomes the problems of ASRC, but at the price of introducing a possibly significant time delay. Thus there is nothing better than to run all data converters from the same master crystal clock. It can be done pretty well but it can add cost and complexity. By that point you are out of the consumer market and into pro gear in racks, which again adds to cost.
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I don't know about the Dolby Atmos with a PC, but few years ago I made 16-channel USB DAC for one customer, based on 4xAK4414 chips.
Really it used just 13 channels for 7.1 audio with separate 3-way amplification at LF/RF and 2-way at the center. As i remember, he used JRiver as a DSP-crossover.
So yes, there is a way.
The cheapest way to get 16 channels out of a PC should be using two 8 channel HDMI audio extractors. Sync should be no problem as both would use the HDA codec clock. Certainly not the best quality with those cheap DACs but surely good enough for an experiment.
I just checked, my i5-8350 based laptop seems to be able to independently output audio to four video outputs at the same time. That would be good for 32 channels. €/$ 40 for one 8 channel extractor from china. A fiver per channel 😀
I just checked, my i5-8350 based laptop seems to be able to independently output audio to four video outputs at the same time. That would be good for 32 channels. €/$ 40 for one 8 channel extractor from china. A fiver per channel 😀