I did a search of the forum but this didn't seem to be addressed specifically.
That's not my audiogram. Just an example. But for those of us over 60 I wonder how often it has been the case that a crossover designer has, for a speaker design intended for 95 percent personal use, tuned the frequency response to compensate for a professionally measured audiogram.
That's not my audiogram. Just an example. But for those of us over 60 I wonder how often it has been the case that a crossover designer has, for a speaker design intended for 95 percent personal use, tuned the frequency response to compensate for a professionally measured audiogram.
While I wouldn't, there is no reason it couldn't be. Certainly as one uncovers the layers of issues that need correction or compensation, the crossover is the usual place to put them. However it can make more sense to use a separate global EQ stage for corrections in general. For one thing, this issue can change. You may also find it confuses your crossover work if you are in a stage of development or, say, you may have level dependent issues clouding your voicing efforts.
I have never heard of that been done. For normal ageing hearing loss, I dont think one should do any compensation. If you go to a concert, no one will compensate for you except your brain. Then when/if you have a severe deficiency, maybe its time to do something to your system.. In this case I suggest a proper EQ function. Like a DSP based one.
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Maybe inadvertently.
Once, I tried out a large French speaker that just happened to have a strong nasal quality,
much like some think the French have in their speech (sorry). Did not wear well.
Once, I tried out a large French speaker that just happened to have a strong nasal quality,
much like some think the French have in their speech (sorry). Did not wear well.
One of the few times where a "dislike" button would be useful. There are a lot of French speaking people who are regular contributors. I am sure you were not intending to be offensive, but still,,,
I am sure my Mid-American English sounds ludicrous or humorous or bizarre to people of other languages. I would be irritated if people poked fun at the way my language sounded to them.
Was not offered as my opinion. But the speaker system was definitely very nasal sounding.
https://www.colorado.edu/linguistics/2018/05/08/nasalization-vowels-french-second-language-english
everyone's hearing falters differently.
unless the manufacturer is going to do individual audiometer tests on the actual buyer then adjust it accordingly.
its utterly pointless.
as kevin says above. - Hearing aids -
my dad and several others i know have hearing aids.
WHEN they use them, they are astounded at how good hifi sounds.
But, this is the main problem.
95% of them, refuse to use the aids that are available to them.
Why ??????
we happily wear glasses and use magnifiers.
but they just refuse to use hearing aids..
unless the manufacturer is going to do individual audiometer tests on the actual buyer then adjust it accordingly.
its utterly pointless.
as kevin says above. - Hearing aids -
my dad and several others i know have hearing aids.
WHEN they use them, they are astounded at how good hifi sounds.
But, this is the main problem.
95% of them, refuse to use the aids that are available to them.
Why ??????
we happily wear glasses and use magnifiers.
but they just refuse to use hearing aids..
I'm in my 60's and have quite substantial hearing loss above 9 - 10kHz or so. I am also the owner/designer of a lamentably complex large active DSP equalized 4 way stereo speaker system. I have been working on the crossover design and EQ for about 7 months now. I recommend using the Harman target curves as a starting point, typically will need substantial boost below 100Hz, and an awareness of response variations which may require additional correction beyond those required for the target curve to sound right at your listening position.
If you need additional EQ to correct for hearing loss it would be best if it was not part of the speaker crossover design. It is going to sound wrong to the majority of other listeners, and may not sound right to you on all material either.
The brain seems to be able to compensate for a lot of hearing problems without much additional help.
If you need additional EQ to correct for hearing loss it would be best if it was not part of the speaker crossover design. It is going to sound wrong to the majority of other listeners, and may not sound right to you on all material either.
The brain seems to be able to compensate for a lot of hearing problems without much additional help.
Don't these severely impact sound quality, though? Hearing aids add a mic, amp, and speaker between you and the loudspeakers, and I doubt they'rre "audiophile quality!"
Hearing aids are primarily intended to make speech more understandable for those with some loss.
One rather effective way is to truncate the bandwidth, eliminating non-voice frequencies, low and high.
Analog phones ranged from 300Hz to 3400Hz and were quite intelligible, even allowing recognition
of the particular person's voice.
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As others have mentioned, it would probably most easily and flexibly done via EQ, probably using something like a MiniDSP. Trying to voice the crossover is not only difficult but also makes resale or passing the speakers to friends or family more difficult.
One of my (older) phones came with EQ and a hearing test that would set it; and recommended HF boost/tweak even for young people. Car audio has always been EQ-personalized. Ageing-related loss above 10khz, most people would normally not hear that high anyway unless tweeters pointed at their ears exactly and they didn't move about. Only a few "audiophiles" cared to do so, and possibly purchased $$$ speakers with ever-higher bandwidth 20k 30k 40k as they aged....
I was at a meeting of piano tuner/technicians last year. The guy putting on the demo was at a nice big grand piano and talked about visiting an older tuning client requesting some extra work done to his piano in addition to a tuning. "One problem is I can hardly hear the notes up here" - the client pressed the keys, and to demonstrate the tech pressed the highest piano keys (about 3500 to 4000 Hz) at full pressure/volume, instantly waking up anyone in the audience who might have been dozing off. The tech described lacquering/hardening the hammers in the highest octave to make those notes (even) louder, and the customer was pleased with the improvement. But the next person to play the piano might wonder why those highest notes are so loud.
More to the point here, it's certainly possible, the high frequencies drop out first and the most, and any attenuation for the midrange and especially tweeter can be reduced, at least until the resistors go to zero. I might suggest a line-level filter instead, so the speakers have their "original value" and voicing. A graphic equalizer would be the thing, and I'm looking at at Peavey Q221 stereo 32-band that should be plenty, and maybe even overkill for this application.
Another thing, as the graph shows, these hearing tests/audiograms only go up to 8kHz, and much hearing loss starts well above those frequencies. This has been a "complaint" of audiophiles, that audiologists and hearing tests are almost totally about being able to hear in the voice range to understand what others are saying, and not about testing hearing for the whole hearing range of 20Hz to 20kHz that we care about. The graph may not be completely helpful in adjusting something to give you the hearing experience you want.
More to the point here, it's certainly possible, the high frequencies drop out first and the most, and any attenuation for the midrange and especially tweeter can be reduced, at least until the resistors go to zero. I might suggest a line-level filter instead, so the speakers have their "original value" and voicing. A graphic equalizer would be the thing, and I'm looking at at Peavey Q221 stereo 32-band that should be plenty, and maybe even overkill for this application.
Another thing, as the graph shows, these hearing tests/audiograms only go up to 8kHz, and much hearing loss starts well above those frequencies. This has been a "complaint" of audiophiles, that audiologists and hearing tests are almost totally about being able to hear in the voice range to understand what others are saying, and not about testing hearing for the whole hearing range of 20Hz to 20kHz that we care about. The graph may not be completely helpful in adjusting something to give you the hearing experience you want.
Another equalizer choice is the Behringer DEQ-2496. You can create multiple equalization programs and select them as needed.
Got the work related severe dip centering around 3Khz. For some reason I feel sort of liberated from all that audiophile nonsense and like much more equipment than before. Actually I like everything and black acrylic and gold accents the most ...🙂
I can't handle a true "flat" sounding speaker at the levels I listen to, which is about a good 10 dB hotter than most 70s/80s jazz, pop, rock, etc is mixed for level wise. In most cases, I like a 2-3 dB dip in the 3.5k area, which sounds natural to me when I reference real life acoustic events as comparison. IOW if it sounds like the real thing, it translates to the specific loudness curve. I rarely listen to music at home less than 90 dB C- weighted and find myself setting the volume in the same position 90% of the time. For a 95dB reference level I use a 2.5dB dip centered at 3.3k with a Q of .7 and tilt the overall curve down by 2 dB from 400hz to 10k. I use different curves for other reference levels, but always have the system be inherently flat.
I can still hear to 14k at age 52. I try to protect my ears working with loud tools, never drive with the windows down and don't go to loud concerts. The only exception is live jazz, classical and small venues I engineer at. I partially reference the fletcher Mason curve for everything I play back at specific levels, but design and treat the system as inherently flat. I get a lot of good compliments by the patrons of my sound gigs, usually stating how natural and clear my FOH mixes sound.
You have to also consider that some people have tinnitus and other hearing issues that respond badly to a "hot" mix. Most large concerts sound like garbage to me and the few times I've went to one, I almost always left disappointed thinking how much better the sound could be if people actually cared more. The best concert I've ever been to was Jethro Tull playing outdoors at a college campus with a volume restriction. It still was pretty loud but sounded amazing, to the point I tipped the sound guy 20 bucks to thank him.
So regarding a built in crossover eq curve for hearing loss, I'd refrain doing so. Its mainly due to the loudness curve changing with the level at which you play music back. I'd rather invest in a cheap DSP solution and program your curve into that, so you can have a few presets to choose from depending on the playback level and your mood.
Below is roughly what the EQ curve on my RME dac looks like for most listening -
I can still hear to 14k at age 52. I try to protect my ears working with loud tools, never drive with the windows down and don't go to loud concerts. The only exception is live jazz, classical and small venues I engineer at. I partially reference the fletcher Mason curve for everything I play back at specific levels, but design and treat the system as inherently flat. I get a lot of good compliments by the patrons of my sound gigs, usually stating how natural and clear my FOH mixes sound.
You have to also consider that some people have tinnitus and other hearing issues that respond badly to a "hot" mix. Most large concerts sound like garbage to me and the few times I've went to one, I almost always left disappointed thinking how much better the sound could be if people actually cared more. The best concert I've ever been to was Jethro Tull playing outdoors at a college campus with a volume restriction. It still was pretty loud but sounded amazing, to the point I tipped the sound guy 20 bucks to thank him.
So regarding a built in crossover eq curve for hearing loss, I'd refrain doing so. Its mainly due to the loudness curve changing with the level at which you play music back. I'd rather invest in a cheap DSP solution and program your curve into that, so you can have a few presets to choose from depending on the playback level and your mood.
Below is roughly what the EQ curve on my RME dac looks like for most listening -
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