Hi all,
I'm thinking of replacing my current commercial speakers, nothing special, but have been in service for over 10 years now, with a fun DIY project that also serves as an upgrade. They will be all three the same speaker ultimately to be the front main stage left, right and center, all three are vertical. No limit on size or weight. I'm happy with towers and I like to see them. But these will likely hide behind an acoustically transparent screen, but still, I will likely use birch and stain them.
I don't need them to do full range as I will crossover around 80hz maybe even down to 60hz depending on the speaker build, to the subs.
My main focus is to build something highly sensitive and efficient to take advantage of dynamic range and push them on peanuts of power, such as directly powered from a typical AVR. So I was mainly thinking of some larger sensitive woofers in the 12" range with 94~96db sensitivity and crossing over to a highly sensitive AMT ribbon tweeter or possibly a horn/compression driver. A 2 way should likely be fine as they will crossover with subs. I've never built a highly sensitive speaker before, so I'm curious what are some of the more popular options out there for folk doing this kind of thing. I would much rather spend to get high sensitivity now than to build lower and have to spend on more power down the road. Distance to seating will be anywhere from 12 to 16 feet max, so I'm just shooting for 105db peaks at 16 feet I think. I may not be able to get that on an AVR's power output, without resorting to extremely high sensitivity speakers like the 1099's or similar. But if I can at least get into the 100db range at 16 feet on AVR typical output's as peaks (obviously much lower when not transient peak) that would be great. If I absolutely have to just switch to using external amplification then I will. But for now I'd like to explore being able to potentially build sensitive enough speakers for an AVR to handle, if possible.
So two potential pathways, one being a 60hz to 20khz two way. The other being a 80hz to 20khz two way. I think it will be easier to do the 80hz and up option. But I'm curious if it's possible to get down to 60hz and be very efficient still.
Any obvious choices out there that are common from a driver perspective for this project?
I keep tossing between AMT/ribbons vs dome tweeters vs horn/compression driver options for the sake of horizontal dispersion. For stereo I would lean towards domes. But for home theater since there are lots of channels and more seats, I'm thinking of AMT/ribbons for the wider horizontal dispersion. I've just never built with one before.
Very best,
I'm thinking of replacing my current commercial speakers, nothing special, but have been in service for over 10 years now, with a fun DIY project that also serves as an upgrade. They will be all three the same speaker ultimately to be the front main stage left, right and center, all three are vertical. No limit on size or weight. I'm happy with towers and I like to see them. But these will likely hide behind an acoustically transparent screen, but still, I will likely use birch and stain them.
I don't need them to do full range as I will crossover around 80hz maybe even down to 60hz depending on the speaker build, to the subs.
My main focus is to build something highly sensitive and efficient to take advantage of dynamic range and push them on peanuts of power, such as directly powered from a typical AVR. So I was mainly thinking of some larger sensitive woofers in the 12" range with 94~96db sensitivity and crossing over to a highly sensitive AMT ribbon tweeter or possibly a horn/compression driver. A 2 way should likely be fine as they will crossover with subs. I've never built a highly sensitive speaker before, so I'm curious what are some of the more popular options out there for folk doing this kind of thing. I would much rather spend to get high sensitivity now than to build lower and have to spend on more power down the road. Distance to seating will be anywhere from 12 to 16 feet max, so I'm just shooting for 105db peaks at 16 feet I think. I may not be able to get that on an AVR's power output, without resorting to extremely high sensitivity speakers like the 1099's or similar. But if I can at least get into the 100db range at 16 feet on AVR typical output's as peaks (obviously much lower when not transient peak) that would be great. If I absolutely have to just switch to using external amplification then I will. But for now I'd like to explore being able to potentially build sensitive enough speakers for an AVR to handle, if possible.
So two potential pathways, one being a 60hz to 20khz two way. The other being a 80hz to 20khz two way. I think it will be easier to do the 80hz and up option. But I'm curious if it's possible to get down to 60hz and be very efficient still.
Any obvious choices out there that are common from a driver perspective for this project?
I keep tossing between AMT/ribbons vs dome tweeters vs horn/compression driver options for the sake of horizontal dispersion. For stereo I would lean towards domes. But for home theater since there are lots of channels and more seats, I'm thinking of AMT/ribbons for the wider horizontal dispersion. I've just never built with one before.
Very best,
I'm all ears, no rules. Just looking for ideas for really sensitive drivers to build with to cover the ranges mentioned. If that involves a full range coaxial and a bass woofer, I'm happy to explore that too. My main goal is high sensitivity, and I'd like wide dispersion horizontally if possible.
Very best,
Growing up, we had a 40wpc Scott tube amp driving some Jensen 10” full range in some open backed cabinets. Also had a radio shack super tweeter during the later years, and a Sansui transistor amp.
Were amazing for the dynamics of guitars, and vocals, smaller room may have helped.
I should’ve gotten them when they were headed to the goodwill!
Were amazing for the dynamics of guitars, and vocals, smaller room may have helped.
I should’ve gotten them when they were headed to the goodwill!
IME with a couple of early Sony FP dedicated HTs for the seriously wealthy, my WHW Altec 15" w/500 Hz 1.4" compression horn for true cinema playback was an easy choice. Subs were one or two of the biggest/baddest sub woofers available in the mid 90s in huge BRs, but my mind's a blank ATM as to its size/brand/model. 
Anyway, now that I've 'digested' your entire post, way overkill for a more typical size HT where dual 12", 800 Hz 1" compression horns will more than suffice. Best overall though short of a MEH is arguably a coax compression CD version, preferably down around a historically cinema 300 Hz XO WHW 12" if depth isn't an issue.
A Peavey 1508-8kadt woofer + RX22 CD horn tweeter is 101 db 1w1m as a SP2-XT (1994) and 98 db 1w1m as a SP2(2004) . I run mine at 1/8 W (1 Vav on pp tracks) to 50 w (cannon shot in 1812 overture) . DIstortion is minimal, specified as 2nd harmonic 20 db down from 5 w response on the SP2(2004). Frequency response is +-3 db, 54 to 17.5 khz. They are huge, but the best speakers I've ever heard in this flyover town. Mine do violins better than the Meyer Sounds at Brown Theater, (unless the CD was the cause of the screechy violins). I auditioned them on piano CD's which nothing else I've heard has reproduced as well.
My XT's were stolen, had pawn shop value , so I'm trying to build some ugly duplicates with new eminence Deltapro 15A and used RX22 horns (from ebay). But the paper cone deltapro might not be as low distortion as the 1508-8kadt which has a kevlar cone. SP2-XT were crossed at 1200 hz for 300 w AES (pink noise). SP2(2004) are crossed at 1800 hz for 500 w AES. I'll never use them that loud inside, only for shows in a parking lot. Dispersion was - 3 db +-22 deg horizontal on the XT's and both have -6 db +-85 deg horiz . When I walk around my room, the sound doesn't change. I'm about 3 m to 10 m from the speaker with them backed up against the front wall. Hard plaster wall boosts the bass below 54 hz quite a bit, IMHO.
JBL 4763 ?? and EV U15 are supposed to be as good, but I'll never hear any of those in this tiny town of 2000000 pop. Nearest were a whole theater set for $6500 in New Jersey. I heard Altec Lansing VOT in a theater in 1966, Is how I went searching for a great 2 way once I quit working.
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For high efficiency it's tough to beat compression tweeters. What's your budget? On a more respectable budget scale... An Eminence Beta 12 woofer crossed to a Slenium D220 CT in a horn would get the job done nicely for LCR speakers. Add whatever sub(s) you want and it would be very loud.
I built these, they were an active/passive speaker (active sub to mid, passive mid to tweeter). They were crazy loud and sounded amazing. The passive xover was tricky, had to tame that CT but once I found it... oooh la-la. That is a Selenium D220 tweeter, Eminence Beta 12 for the mid, and I used a Dayton RSS390HO sub.
But if you were running separate subs you could make the cabinet for the Beta 12 quite a bit bigger, and ported and get 60 Hz out of them no problem.
Thanks; I will look these up. Since this is for theater, I'm happy with a balance of high output, dynamics and fun, less so much looking for a subtle refined experience that I would reserve for stereo. But not looking for just junk but loud experience either. I already have the subs taken care of, so this would strictly be passive speakers from the crossover up. I could do larger cabinets no problem if it allows efficiency to 60hz while still being very sensitive.
Are these the drivers mentioned?
https://www.parts-express.com/Emine...nqpNm2O86cUIiDaKSqSzpqF9O-y_9QOhoCuvYQAvD_BwE
https://www.parts-express.com/JBL-S...Horn-Driver-8-Ohm-1-3-8-18-264-270?quantity=1
Very best,
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Those are the speakers yes. That definitely wasn't junk, that speaker sounded amazing. Mine looks bad because I never finished them, I used them in my shop so I didn't care, they were just raw MDF.
I was going to recommend also checking DIY Sound Group too but I checked their site and everything is out of stock, not sure if he's getting out of the business or not.
Do you have the wherewithal and equipment to design passive crossovers? Or were you planning on an active speaker?
Hi,
Thanks; this does look very similar to the HT's on DIYSG. I almost did those, but ultimately I can build my own so I'd rather do that. I like doing it from scratch and learning along the way each time.
I have what's needed to do passive crossovers (Umik-1 with REW, DATS v3; measuring each driver in the enclosure, near field for the mid and bass woofer, near and far field as needed for mid to treble, impulse gating, baffle correction, etc, to generate a pseudo-anechoic response to then design the crossover from in Xsim).
I was mainly just looking for what drivers to look at. It helped to see these, they're very affordable for this project. Just seeing that 98d sensitivity on that woofer was great!
Very best,
Thanks; this does look very similar to the HT's on DIYSG. I almost did those, but ultimately I can build my own so I'd rather do that. I like doing it from scratch and learning along the way each time.
I have what's needed to do passive crossovers (Umik-1 with REW, DATS v3; measuring each driver in the enclosure, near field for the mid and bass woofer, near and far field as needed for mid to treble, impulse gating, baffle correction, etc, to generate a pseudo-anechoic response to then design the crossover from in Xsim).
I was mainly just looking for what drivers to look at. It helped to see these, they're very affordable for this project. Just seeing that 98d sensitivity on that woofer was great!
Very best,
Those will work nicely. I believe John Hollander over at PETT did this build (the Beta 12 with the D220) in a larger cabinet. If you're curious you could look him up over there and send a PM. I'll try to find the horn I used with the D220, IIRC it was a Pyle horn.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-H6512-6-1-2-x-12-Waveguide-1-3-8-18-TPI-270-318
Thanks; these do look great so far. I'll peak around!
Edit: Does this look like the right waveguide?
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-12-Waveguide-1-3-8-18-TPI-270-318?quantity=1
Very best,
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Based on this thread, just waiting for shipping costs to go down on some woofers, so hopefully assume it's all the other components too.
This can be excellent. I did 3 ways with large 12 and 15 coaxes and 15 or 18's crossed in below actively about 20ya.
Yeah! Did a couple of Altec 604s back in the very early days of big screen projector TVs, so no need for helper woofers.
I was using Tannoy Gold and Red. and the last pair had some PAudio BM15CX38 (IIRC) which I wish I'd never sold.
After a brief hiatus, I went to Unitys.
We'll have to agree to disagree here. I mainly wanted the midbass out of the coax cones and it was a very worthwhile improvement. Plus I do play my system loud on occasion, enough to get the Karens upset.