Which woofer is better for this design?
I like a really tight low bass.
I'll probably tune the port to 22-25Hz -- 1.2 cu ft (34 liter)
Or go sealed with the 22W if the bass isn't tight.
I don't like "boomy" "slow bass"
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/page-190
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1062--tymphany-tc9fd18-08-spec-sheet.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-NE225W-08-8-Subwoofer-Speaker-264-1138
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...evelator-22w/8857t-00-8-woofer-aluminum-cone/
I like a really tight low bass.
I'll probably tune the port to 22-25Hz -- 1.2 cu ft (34 liter)
Or go sealed with the 22W if the bass isn't tight.
I don't like "boomy" "slow bass"
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/page-190
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1062--tymphany-tc9fd18-08-spec-sheet.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-NE225W-08-8-Subwoofer-Speaker-264-1138
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...evelator-22w/8857t-00-8-woofer-aluminum-cone/
Given that the 22W starts falling off above 1kHz, perhaps consuider making the crossover at 500Hz to give the 22W more room for a shallow crossover if you are interested in doing a 1st order XO. Or go the more traditional route and make the crossover at 1kHz to take advantage of the falloff to get a 4th order overall using a 2nd order electrical. This will require an inverted polarity on the TC9FD and it won't have the same crisp timing as the first order filter.
If using a 22W woofer which costs $379 (high end), why use a $10 TC9FD? You should pair it with the SS 10F.
To get "tight bass" I assume you mean wide bandwidth, low group delay bass, you can use a sealed cabinet or a tapered and damped TL like the 10F/RS225 speaker mentioned above. You will need to redesign the TL for the 22W though.
If using a 22W woofer which costs $379 (high end), why use a $10 TC9FD? You should pair it with the SS 10F.
To get "tight bass" I assume you mean wide bandwidth, low group delay bass, you can use a sealed cabinet or a tapered and damped TL like the 10F/RS225 speaker mentioned above. You will need to redesign the TL for the 22W though.
That this is generally true is an audiophile myth, and while different, fourth order crossovers can be done as well as or better than first.
TL cabinet is too large.
I don't know how it will sound.
I don't want to design it, build it, then stuff it, then look at it in my living room.
SS 10F:
Doesn't have the FR I would like I think; rising high FR response.
Too expensive, too sensitive (which can be okay).
Most high end expensive "audiophile" tweeters/fullrange have annoying high frequency response.
I'm not paying extra to be annoyed; I can do that on my own for free 🤣
Don't want to build a grill to protect it would rather just replace it if something happens to it.
2 TC9FD drivers at 30-60 degree offset are better than one 10F.
You don't actually get anything better putting more money into a 3 inch driver.
Like Zaph says the $40 (2012 USD) SEAS tweeter is better than the $200 SEAS tweeter (even discounted to $40).
The the SEAS metal tweeter comes metal grills (ugly according to him, but beautiful according to me).
That tweeter would annoy the crap out of me 🤣 Had the fabric dome version it was okay.
Vifa XT25 sounds better than just about any dome tweeter.
If you want better low end from the XT25 you just spend more money, on better manufactures or versions of it, but generally won't get best low end from that tweeter.
It's the bass / low end of a driver where the money/attention to detail can be seen.
If I didn't want tight (loud) low bass I could buy any woofer.
I would buy a Fountek FW222, comes with metal grills on it, if I didn't want specific bass.
Then I wouldn't have to f**k around for days making grills.
Only thing would be crappier on the Founteks is the build quality, but on a 3" driver I don't care about build quality too much.
Actually best 3" drivers would probably be the Fountek EX88 or 89.
Should have bought 7" Accutons when they came on ebay few months ago.
But ebay mostly has crap drivers.
Have to go with Zaph (the great) on this one too.
Generally a 6dB/octave (electrical) will sound better than 24 dB/octave (acoustic), but is harder to pull off.
Some where in there maybe:
http://zaphaudio.com/mantras.html
I actually don't "believe" in cross-overs that much
I'll hear the bass is "boomy"/"slow" and highs are "bright", before I hear anything.
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I made most of that stuff up
But when you can't decide, eventually you give up 🤔🙄🤣
Actually I'll show you guys how to build a speaker and port.
Still undecided about 3-way or 2-way and if 2-way 1 or 2 drivers.
When you have 3-inch drivers you really want at least 2 firing at 30-60 degree angle with respect to each other, i.e. Bose.
Apparently I'm not the master carpenter I thought I was (and why would I be 🤔) because I'm 1/4 of the way done and all I have is half boxes without any true right angles, a bunch of large gaps glue gaps and almost lost an eye porn.
Attachments
Ouch! What happened? A reminder for all of us to wear safety glasses/goggles.
I also wear safety glasses when powering up an amp for the first time. Reversed electrolytic caps or over voltaged caps can explode like a firecracker with shrapnel.
Okay, here's what I have for almost final design.
I think I'm going to overlap the VIFA XT25 with the RS52 on top just to get closer center to center distance
Three options are in the pics. I like the way RS52 on top of XT25 looks the best.
I didn't like the TC9 as much as I like the RS52
I generally like metal drivers the most and paper the least.
I wish I had the fiberglass TC9 to try, now that I think about it.
Thanks to Zaph, I took the cross-over from him and tried to tweak it.
Probably goofed it up a little.
I don't seem to have super smooth response and reverse nulls don't look that great.
I have little idea what the impedance or phase is suppose to look like.
http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html
Thanks to Michael Chua also, I might use his cross-over instead.
https://ampslab.com/falcon.htm
I'm trying to make Zaph's x-over because:
1) Tweeter cross-over point is 3.5 KHz vs 4 KHz
2) I modified it first to use in my previous speakers
3) Less parts
4) Is designed for a baffle
5) Both had test results, but Zaph had doper tests 🤣🤓
I think I'm going to overlap the VIFA XT25 with the RS52 on top just to get closer center to center distance
Three options are in the pics. I like the way RS52 on top of XT25 looks the best.
I didn't like the TC9 as much as I like the RS52
I generally like metal drivers the most and paper the least.
I wish I had the fiberglass TC9 to try, now that I think about it.
Thanks to Zaph, I took the cross-over from him and tried to tweak it.
Probably goofed it up a little.
I don't seem to have super smooth response and reverse nulls don't look that great.
I have little idea what the impedance or phase is suppose to look like.
http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html
Thanks to Michael Chua also, I might use his cross-over instead.
https://ampslab.com/falcon.htm
I'm trying to make Zaph's x-over because:
1) Tweeter cross-over point is 3.5 KHz vs 4 KHz
2) I modified it first to use in my previous speakers
3) Less parts
4) Is designed for a baffle
5) Both had test results, but Zaph had doper tests 🤣🤓
Attachments
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When doing the cross-over should I focus on having a reverse null with the tweeter to mid crossover or flattest / best frequency response?
Hardest thing is to get rid of the dip at 4 KHz.
I can get it a little better (by changing 44 uF cap on the mid), but then I lose the reverse null at the tweeter/mid cross-over point.
And the 4 KHz dip get larger.
But the ZRT FR doesn't seem to be much flatter than the cross-over I just uploaded.
Well below 500 Hz it's flatter, but it takes into account the BSC (I think) and I don't like a lot of highs.
Or what could use improvement?
I left the woofer SPL higher below 400 Hz to compensate for baffle step compression.
But I think BSC is around 200 Hz on 11 inch (27.5 cm) wide baffle.
Also I don't like a lot of highs.
I changed the tweeter cross-over to 1 cap and 1 inductor , instead of 2 caps
Hardest thing is to get rid of the dip at 4 KHz.
I can get it a little better (by changing 44 uF cap on the mid), but then I lose the reverse null at the tweeter/mid cross-over point.
And the 4 KHz dip get larger.
But the ZRT FR doesn't seem to be much flatter than the cross-over I just uploaded.
Well below 500 Hz it's flatter, but it takes into account the BSC (I think) and I don't like a lot of highs.
Or what could use improvement?
I left the woofer SPL higher below 400 Hz to compensate for baffle step compression.
But I think BSC is around 200 Hz on 11 inch (27.5 cm) wide baffle.
Also I don't like a lot of highs.
I changed the tweeter cross-over to 1 cap and 1 inductor , instead of 2 caps
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Baffle step is around 450Hz. Where are you planning to cross the woofer to the an52? An52 has fs of around 400Hz so you'd want to go twice as high with your crossover. Don't know how your woofer is gonna like that. I know you could pull it off with rs225 at around 800Hz. Also keep in mind moving your mid dome in front of your tweeter dome is gonna offset the acoustic centers so your domes won't be time aligned like they would be if flush mounted.
I was just about to ask about time aligning, but not the 3 mm (thickness of the flange) that I'm moving the RS52 forward.
I can also put the RS52 under the Vifa tweeter.
But tweeter will not be flush mounted about 20% of the way around if I put the RS52 under:
http://zaphaudio.com/mtg-surface.html
I'm almost done with the enclosure and I was wondering if I should put the woofer flat on the baffle or do what Troels does in some of his designs:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-941.htm
How important is it to do this? It's 25 mm difference in my case.
I think it looks better with a flat baffle, but the RS52 isn't flush mounted and that might look weird anyway.
I'm not sure what to do about the RS52 mounting.
I was thinking of routing out the Vifa XT25 plastic face, but I feel like it needs the whole face for structure.
Crossover points are the reverse nulls in the above pics: 2600 Hz and 735 Hz.
I can also put the RS52 under the Vifa tweeter.
But tweeter will not be flush mounted about 20% of the way around if I put the RS52 under:
http://zaphaudio.com/mtg-surface.html
I'm almost done with the enclosure and I was wondering if I should put the woofer flat on the baffle or do what Troels does in some of his designs:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-941.htm
How important is it to do this? It's 25 mm difference in my case.
I think it looks better with a flat baffle, but the RS52 isn't flush mounted and that might look weird anyway.
I'm not sure what to do about the RS52 mounting.
I was thinking of routing out the Vifa XT25 plastic face, but I feel like it needs the whole face for structure.
Crossover points are the reverse nulls in the above pics: 2600 Hz and 735 Hz.
I think I'm going to make a flat baffle, it's easier.
I was also going to make a removeable baffle, but at this point I just want it done.
I already made so many mistakes, I don't think one more matters anyway 😆
I doubt I will hear any difference with the woofer 25 mm further forward.
But maybe I'm wrong?
I was also going to make a removeable baffle, but at this point I just want it done.
I already made so many mistakes, I don't think one more matters anyway 😆
I doubt I will hear any difference with the woofer 25 mm further forward.
But maybe I'm wrong?
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There is no need to look at a reverse null if you turn on phase in Xsim. You have system phase turned on, you can turn that off and turn it on for the drivers.