Hi all,
I'm new about the place and I'm really looking for a bit of guidance.
I'm a woodworker with experience making small boxes so I think I can do a reasonable job of a pair of speakers. I'm interested in experimenting with MDF and laminating, though I'm far more familiar with solid timber. I suspect my final design will be a combination of the two, possibly with some heavy plywood bracing. I've seen some fantastic projects by a lot of DIYers and I'd like to build a pair of powered (Lepai LP40PA amplifier) bookshelf speakers for my sister who's had a difficult year.
A couple of projects have piqued my interest, notably the Parts Express C-Sharp and another pair of slightly bigger, front-ported speakers I've seen someone build on YouTube. I'm not interested in purchasing the full C-Sharp kit and would much prefer to build the enclosures off a plan, rather than from pre-cut parts. I have access to an excellent professional workshop.
I have a couple of caveats. First, I'd prefer a slotted front port and I'd like something in the 150mm/6" driver range (but no bigger) and I'd rather not go below 125mm/5". I have thought about full range drivers but it seems to me the best results with those are in transmission line enclosures. While I have little doubt I could build them, they are much more complicated and not really practical for a bookshelf speaker.
So it's down to a two way set up. The C-Sharp speakers use DSA135-8 and ND25FW-4 drivers. I also looked at the RS150P-8 and DC28FS-4 drivers in the alternative design as they seem to be a step up in quality for very little extra.
The trouble is that I have no real idea of how to build a crossover, assuming I build the second one. I can solder well enough for this. I would have thought that someone would have designed a crossover for what appears to be a common combination so I thought I'd ask around here.
If designing and building my own crossover gets too complicated, I'll probably just go for the C-Sharps but I'm trying to figure out something that I will find challenging and enjoyable to build.
My sister is not an audiophile but there's nothing wrong with her hearing and she can differentiate between very average (think: plastic boom box) and reasonably good. I'm set on the amp, though I'm sure others would use something more advanced.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
JD
I'm new about the place and I'm really looking for a bit of guidance.
I'm a woodworker with experience making small boxes so I think I can do a reasonable job of a pair of speakers. I'm interested in experimenting with MDF and laminating, though I'm far more familiar with solid timber. I suspect my final design will be a combination of the two, possibly with some heavy plywood bracing. I've seen some fantastic projects by a lot of DIYers and I'd like to build a pair of powered (Lepai LP40PA amplifier) bookshelf speakers for my sister who's had a difficult year.
A couple of projects have piqued my interest, notably the Parts Express C-Sharp and another pair of slightly bigger, front-ported speakers I've seen someone build on YouTube. I'm not interested in purchasing the full C-Sharp kit and would much prefer to build the enclosures off a plan, rather than from pre-cut parts. I have access to an excellent professional workshop.
I have a couple of caveats. First, I'd prefer a slotted front port and I'd like something in the 150mm/6" driver range (but no bigger) and I'd rather not go below 125mm/5". I have thought about full range drivers but it seems to me the best results with those are in transmission line enclosures. While I have little doubt I could build them, they are much more complicated and not really practical for a bookshelf speaker.
So it's down to a two way set up. The C-Sharp speakers use DSA135-8 and ND25FW-4 drivers. I also looked at the RS150P-8 and DC28FS-4 drivers in the alternative design as they seem to be a step up in quality for very little extra.
The trouble is that I have no real idea of how to build a crossover, assuming I build the second one. I can solder well enough for this. I would have thought that someone would have designed a crossover for what appears to be a common combination so I thought I'd ask around here.
If designing and building my own crossover gets too complicated, I'll probably just go for the C-Sharps but I'm trying to figure out something that I will find challenging and enjoyable to build.
My sister is not an audiophile but there's nothing wrong with her hearing and she can differentiate between very average (think: plastic boom box) and reasonably good. I'm set on the amp, though I'm sure others would use something more advanced.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
JD
Designing and building a crossover are two entirely different things. Anyone with some basic soldering ability can build a crossover, but very few people know how to really design one. So by all means stick with a proven crossover design regardless of which speaker you decide to build.
Hi,
Look at here :
https://www.audioexcite.com/
https://heissmann-acoustics.de
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm (some free designs with crossover values)
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
http://speakerdesignworks.com/index_page_2.html
You should find to please your hands skill...
Look at here :
https://www.audioexcite.com/
https://heissmann-acoustics.de
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm (some free designs with crossover values)
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
http://speakerdesignworks.com/index_page_2.html
You should find to please your hands skill...
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Thank you. I’m aware there’s a pretty massive difference so I was hoping someone would have already designed one for my second option. I can use the standard crossover if I build the C-Sharps.
Do you know where I can find a crossover for a combination of RS150P and DC28F drivers?
Do you know where I can find a crossover for a combination of RS150P and DC28F drivers?
Outstanding performance from a 2-way with this one:
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/piccolo-loudspeaker-kit/
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/piccolo-loudspeaker-kit/
Here is a link to a full write up for the Piccolos:
https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Piccolo-Write-up.pdf
I doubt that you can find anything better in that price range.
https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Piccolo-Write-up.pdf
I doubt that you can find anything better in that price range.
JD,
Keep in mind that the C-Sharp speakers you mentioned in the first post are active speakers with built in amps. And I would really question the quality of the components you will get for $95 per speaker which includes 2 drivers, an amplifier, crossover, internal wiring, mdf cabinet, power module, and connector plate. That is a lot of stuff for only $95, and that price point you probably shouldn't expect much in the way of quality components.
But you haven't mentioned your budget limit, so maybe that is the best value for you regardless of the quality.
In comparison, all of the kits that have been recommended here so far by others are not active. They are traditional passive speakers, and the kits usually contain only the drivers and crossover components. So that's where all the money goes and none of it the amplifier, cabinet or other miscellaneous parts.
Keep in mind that the C-Sharp speakers you mentioned in the first post are active speakers with built in amps. And I would really question the quality of the components you will get for $95 per speaker which includes 2 drivers, an amplifier, crossover, internal wiring, mdf cabinet, power module, and connector plate. That is a lot of stuff for only $95, and that price point you probably shouldn't expect much in the way of quality components.
But you haven't mentioned your budget limit, so maybe that is the best value for you regardless of the quality.
In comparison, all of the kits that have been recommended here so far by others are not active. They are traditional passive speakers, and the kits usually contain only the drivers and crossover components. So that's where all the money goes and none of it the amplifier, cabinet or other miscellaneous parts.
My sister is not an audiophile, as I said, so I’m not too concerned that the components are not audiophile quality. As far as the crossover components are concerned, I was just looking at the standard Dayton kit components but with a bit of room to move on the drivers, as I said.
This is just a budget build, no more. Things like internal wiring and attenuation materials I have access to through my job.
Be aware than each filter is related to a cabinet geometry and drivers combo. The only thing you can improve without knowledge is the build quality...better wood, veenering, etc. But size and shape must be kept. If you change the drivers it also means a new filter design. So your best bet is to pick-up an already made design as the aboves among many others as well and make pretty dead sounding cabinet...dense Baltic Birch ply or dense medium like the tinted one look at above or equal to 700 kg/cube meter and 18 mm minimum width for the walls.
Yeah, this is very much where my thinking is. I was definitely aiming for at least 15-16mm ply but I shifted my plans to 18mm MDF with a decorative laminate finish and possibly a solid timber front (I’m aware that solid timber is not ideal for a speaker enclosure). I have heard plywood is less than ideal because of resonance but I’m only likely to use that for internal bracing. It has some very considerable structural advantages over MDF. Those resonances will be in direct proportion to the size of the enclosure.
I'm in Australia so timber choices are a bit limited but our hardwoods are extremely dense, more so than northern hemisphere timbers. The biggest problem for me here is parts availability. Parts Express is a lot further away! I do have access to some good local suppliers for wiring and binding posts, etc..
Since you are not attempting to build an audiophile level speaker it doesn't really matter at all what you use for the cabinet. Or for the components either for that matter. It sounds like your sister is not going to know the difference, so just build whatever is easiest for you.
It seems like you are much more concerned with the appearance than the sound quality. And there is nothing wrong with that if it will please your sister. I just don't think that you need to sweat the driver or component issue very much.
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Hello and welcome to the Forum
I'm also in Oz (Melbourne) and have built several pairs of 'bookshelf' speakers, some with 5" drivers and some with 6", always with a dome tweeter. The links above are well worth exploring, do check them out.
Whats your budget please? Driver brands available here include Vifa, SB Acoustics, Visaton, Dayton Audio, Peerless and Tymphany (Peerless by another name), all of which have drivers at different amounts of damage.
If you're not going to use grilles, you might choose something that looks 'cool', although of course that's subjective, but for example the Dayton 'Classic' woofers look a bit daggy. Do choose a proved, well written-up project, perhaps one which has a relatively simple crossover- both for $ and build reasons.
As far as my builds go, I love my Classix II (linked above) and Lark SM speakers (the latter courtesy Michael Chua of this Forum) - both 6" two ways with the $30 Vifa BC25TG tweeter.
Ralph Giralfino of this Forum designed a very nice 5" two way with Vifa and Peerless drivers and kindly shared his project with me, they use the same tweeter but a 5" Peerless 830656 mid - about $38 at the moment, I think. These have the smallest cabinet of my builds. Also built another pair with the Peerless but another tweeter, also very good but tweeter is NLA.
XO parts - I get mine from Speakerbug in Brisbane - will probably cost you around $120 for most two way builds, as inductors aren't cheap. You don't have to use expensive caps and resistors for your project if they're not going to be 'audiophile'. Some people here might have some s'h bits, too, worth thinking about.
Good luck and have fun!
Geoff
I'm also in Oz (Melbourne) and have built several pairs of 'bookshelf' speakers, some with 5" drivers and some with 6", always with a dome tweeter. The links above are well worth exploring, do check them out.
Whats your budget please? Driver brands available here include Vifa, SB Acoustics, Visaton, Dayton Audio, Peerless and Tymphany (Peerless by another name), all of which have drivers at different amounts of damage.
If you're not going to use grilles, you might choose something that looks 'cool', although of course that's subjective, but for example the Dayton 'Classic' woofers look a bit daggy. Do choose a proved, well written-up project, perhaps one which has a relatively simple crossover- both for $ and build reasons.
As far as my builds go, I love my Classix II (linked above) and Lark SM speakers (the latter courtesy Michael Chua of this Forum) - both 6" two ways with the $30 Vifa BC25TG tweeter.
Ralph Giralfino of this Forum designed a very nice 5" two way with Vifa and Peerless drivers and kindly shared his project with me, they use the same tweeter but a 5" Peerless 830656 mid - about $38 at the moment, I think. These have the smallest cabinet of my builds. Also built another pair with the Peerless but another tweeter, also very good but tweeter is NLA.
XO parts - I get mine from Speakerbug in Brisbane - will probably cost you around $120 for most two way builds, as inductors aren't cheap. You don't have to use expensive caps and resistors for your project if they're not going to be 'audiophile'. Some people here might have some s'h bits, too, worth thinking about.
Good luck and have fun!
Geoff
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This is kind of an exercise (in futility, some might say!) but I'm just exploring some of the intricacies of the construction. I like the idea of appearance but it's more about the internal structure. I kind of think that the enclosure is going to be the thing I can influence the most. I was pondering the slightly better drivers because I'd prefer a cast chassis over a stamped steel one and they don't bend when you tighten down the screws on the flanges.
This actually is not true, I know a lot say this but you will hear no difference between a well built cabinet using solid hardwood, and a well built cabinet using good plywood or MDF. I've actually tested this, I built 2 pairs of the same 2-way using exactly the same crossovers and drivers, one pair I built out of solid canary wood (hardwood), and the other pair out of a very good plywood. They both sound and measure identical.
You do need to follow some woodworking guidelines to allow for expansion/contraction, but hardwood can make a very nice cabinet.
Cool! Thanks for the tips Geoff. I'm in Melbourne too (St Kilda).
The budget is a little bit rubbery but this is very much a budget build and will take place over weeks, maybe months. I'm hoping to finish in time for Christmas. I'm just trying to avoid spending you know, $1,000 because the components are better (which, to be fair, nobody has recommended).
If I were building for myself, I'd definitely be doing it very differently and looking at higher quality components and a lot more dosh. I'd be very interested in following up on some of this so any information you've got on local suppliers will be very welcome. Budget is going to be very dependent on what I can actually get here and how much I'm going to be paying for it. I have an "in" through WES but I don't know If I'm going to use it, though they are quite price competitive.
I'm not absolutely wedded to Dayton and if there are Vifa or Peerless or SB Acoustics (mentioned earlier) that are cost competitive, I would be quite happy to look at them.
I was thinking more in terms of dimensional stability. Both plywood and MDF are dimensionally stable and generally a lot cheaper. I'd still be interested in doing the fronts with solid timber.
*EDIT Nice builds, by the way!
Just to clarify, by 'powered speakers' do you mean that you're going to put an amp inside each speaker? Or power them with an external Lepai amp?
The Lepai isn't the most powerful around, so you might need an efficient speaker design, perhaps?
NB I get my MDF already cut from Allboards in Thomastown, I think they also sell ply and veneered MDF. Drivers are from WES or LSK (same company anyway).
I wish my builds looked half as good as those above!
Geoff
The Lepai isn't the most powerful around, so you might need an efficient speaker design, perhaps?
NB I get my MDF already cut from Allboards in Thomastown, I think they also sell ply and veneered MDF. Drivers are from WES or LSK (same company anyway).
I wish my builds looked half as good as those above!
Geoff
Welcome
I'd recommend reading this thread here as a start, it's basic but full of good information and many opinions
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/diyaudio-reference-speaker-project.25590/
Personally I'd build a sealed box with a simple XO and use a small stereo amplifier with a Bluetooth input
I have a small box here built by member rabbitz and I've made a couple myself in cabinets around 5 litres and with the right driver and a small room the combination of a 5" mid-bass and a small tweeter doesn't give much away when the volumes needed are relatively low.
I'm in Geelong BTW
I buy most of my XO parts from Speakerbug too
Look at the small Peerless woofer http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/830656-peerless-5-mid-woofer-sds
I'm not familiar with the drivers you mention so I can't comment there but I have used the smaller 4" unit
I'd recommend reading this thread here as a start, it's basic but full of good information and many opinions
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/diyaudio-reference-speaker-project.25590/
Personally I'd build a sealed box with a simple XO and use a small stereo amplifier with a Bluetooth input
I have a small box here built by member rabbitz and I've made a couple myself in cabinets around 5 litres and with the right driver and a small room the combination of a 5" mid-bass and a small tweeter doesn't give much away when the volumes needed are relatively low.
I'm in Geelong BTW
I buy most of my XO parts from Speakerbug too
Look at the small Peerless woofer http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/830656-peerless-5-mid-woofer-sds
I'm not familiar with the drivers you mention so I can't comment there but I have used the smaller 4" unit
Just going to power it as per the C-Sharp build. One plate amp in the left box and a cable to the other. Not too worried about power. I ran 100 Watt Carlssons for decades with a NAD 3020 and they went like a bomb.
As I said, the thing I'm most worried about is the crossover. I can adapt some designs from the 'net by calculating the internal dimensions and adjusting for any bracing or changes in cone size as the front baffle gets thicker.
I saw Allboards on the net and they looked pretty good. I'd probably prefer to do the veneering myself. As I said, I have access to a seriously professional workshop (and advice).