No. Twenty years ago I built the generally well regarded Mullard-designed 3-3 amplifier rated at under 0.1% distortion. The build met spec and the frequency response measured flat yet the amp was 'shrill and thin'. Less simplistic measurements revealed a very slowly decreasing trail of distortion harmonics extended well beyond 20 kHz. It was unlistenable.
Purifi provides an example of why some of the tropes passing for science should be taken with much salt. Especially when it's invariably saturated with so much personal invective.
https://purifi-audio.com/2020/04/28/dist/
Paid membership allows a signature line.
Yeah, what’s the importance of actual sound while we can believe. 🙄
My preferred way of adding huge sound upgrade to my system is a glass of beer. I don’t understand why it sounds so much better while it measures the same. 🤣
St’ Peter bless you all. It's Friday. 😄
Most important pat is that you measured a difference. It was not an unexplained mystery. 👍
I would look at things like self noise and voltage coefficient. At one point in my career I was designing low noise AC front end circuitry for semiconductor ATE - it is very difficult to better thin film resistors except at extreme cost and well beyond the point of diminishing returns for audio applications. Panasonic, Vishay and several others make about as blameless examples of thin films as you will find.
If you want to see what is SOTA in resistor technology check out Texas Components for their bulk foil resistors. https://www.texascomponents.com/store/home.asp (And yes their home page is not quite what I would expect from a manufacturer of this caliber.)
There was a point in time more than a decade ago when I liked MELF resistors because they were an easy entree into SMD, but I have long since moved on.
On that note even tho it will fall mostly on deaf ears (ha!) I will add that i swapped out all the caps on the smt board for the same ones used in the TH board and now it sounds strikingly similar in 'texture'. That is the shrillness that was unlistenable is gone.
Before that i was getting ear fatigue but not now.
Before that i was getting ear fatigue but not now.
You apparently didn't read the Purifi blog. They chose novel investigative measurements to reveal an issue first determined by ear. Presumably they own AP-tier gear and understand it well enough not to have missed the standard checks.
It's a tautological game as old as DIYA. If you hear it but don't know how to measure it, we're right and you're wrong. If in time the appropriate measurement reveals a real underlying cause, now we're even more right. It's a social game and while it ebbs and flows on this forum it would be a loss to see it become another place where half the posts are about people.
MELF resistors have been recommended (and measured) by e.g. Samuel Groner which is probably the reason why many are using them. They are expensive so no sense in using them everywhere. But IME they work well e.g. in signal path.
Thanks. I actually do have some bulk foil ordered for to be used as a buffer resistor in my psu because of their robust voltage rating.
Will take your suggestion to heart. One thing that draws me to thin film is definitely their price. And also it seems to me they will offer lower inductive trace than melfs because their pad contact area is larger?
IF it was flat and undistorted, yet you found it unlistenable 😱 plus all other defects you mention, I much suspect personal bias/prejudice/animosity on the part of the listener.
OR, removing listener from the equation, sound source (presumed vinyl record played in a turntable) or reproducing speaker were horrible.
Neither of them an amplifier fault.
OR: meager 3 Watts were not enough and it spent part of the time clipping peaks. Or worse.
Did you drive a high sensitivity speaker with it?
It´s practically mandatory given the low power.
I also read that page, it talks about heavy (there is no other word to describe it) magnetic distortion in iron core coils.
Unless you used little iron core chokes as resistors (hey!, they do have some DCR) can´t see they have ANY relevance in this thread.
Are you switching the subject?
Page title was:
HifiPig wrote a review for s piece of gear a few yrs back where the reviewer extolled the virtues of leaded components over SMD which they described as sounding ‘constrained’ and ‘harsh’.
You have no idea how bs like this enflames designers who work their ***** off to create products that measure well and sound good only to have some ignoramus make claims that don’t stand up to scrutiny.
You have no idea how bs like this enflames designers who work their ***** off to create products that measure well and sound good only to have some ignoramus make claims that don’t stand up to scrutiny.
It was shrill because a simple THD number without regard to harmonic distribution doesn't tell you much. Shrill/thin had nothing to do with simplistic frequency imbalances. All of this is prosaic. Nothing here is controversial. Re your other unfounded guesses many people here aren't as dim witted as your posts commonly imply.
A closer reread may help. Heavy magnetic distortion should appear in the distortion measurements? Or maybe Purfi doesn't or doesn't know how to measure.
It is not like normal distortion that the ear just files away as colouration, or can otherwise get used to. Left to its own, hysteresis produces a recognisable grainy texture in the sound, a blanket of fuzz that always stays just this side of audible, taunting and infuriating like an itch you can’t scratch.
In order to debate SMT vs THT, I think a more scientific approach is needed. Is SMT sound a thing.
Sound comes from a system. Suppose the input and output devices have more distortion than the electronic parts.
A photo is not sufficient. There needs to be a design package including gerbils or an offer of testable boards so that others can try to replicate the alleged findings.
Sound comes from a system. Suppose the input and output devices have more distortion than the electronic parts.
A photo is not sufficient. There needs to be a design package including gerbils or an offer of testable boards so that others can try to replicate the alleged findings.
If you're hearing a thermal noise difference in resistors then you can safely assume those resistors belong in the trash bin.
As to different brands of resistors sounding differently: the opinions on that are very diverse. Pretty much the same goes for capacitors.
Simply said: if you use the right part in the right place, then only terrible quality can distort the sound.
You seem to be intent on making an argument of it. I was just encouraging the OP to trust his hearing but not be too attached to its conclusions.
I have no dog in the MELF question, I've never used one. And I'm not taking a side in the objectivist/subjectivist question, I'm deeply into both. They work together. I can't imagine it being otherwise. YMMV.
Peace.
Speaking of components having an audible effect, was there not an "audiophile solder" wherein its manufacturer claimed to have built an entire receiver using such, and a second unit using ordinary solder and it was said the one built (of course...) with the audiophile solder "sounded better"?
It's a dim memory, from back in the day when receivers were constructed using all through-hole components. Was this ever debunked?
Talk about the chances of it measuring differently.
It's a dim memory, from back in the day when receivers were constructed using all through-hole components. Was this ever debunked?
Talk about the chances of it measuring differently.
I find this to be the answer no matter how you got there. I really don't care how, as long as obtaining the answer can be replicated. Putting it, my simple way. "If the answer is on page 27, you don't have to read 27 pages to get there. Just read page 27."
Regards
See post #17, https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/that-dreaded-smt-sound.390107/post-7118621 . You might be hearing a 1/f noise difference, although that seems unlikely as metal film through-hole and thin film MELF resistors are both pretty good in that respect, but not a thermal noise difference, because thermal noise depends on nothing but resistance and temperature.
Are you sure you didn't use class 2 ceramic capacitors (X7R, X5R, Y5V, Z5U) in the signal path but only class 1 (NP0/C0G)? Class 2 capacitors can be so grossly non-linear you even have to take it into account when you only use them for supply decoupling. The distortion difference should then be measurable, of course.
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