I am decidedly in the "Enthusiastic Amateur" category as far as woodworking goes. The lovely cabinet making in my photos is by Corwin Butterworth. I do enjoy going to "professional" events such as the Journal of Light Construction "Tool Show." It was there that I encountered the Lamello Zeta P2 Tenso system.
This amazing machine cuts an arc-shaped slot in the work piece that is wider at the bottom. How it accomplishes that has to be seen to be believed.
There are several varieties of high-tech "biscuits" that fit securely into those slots. Securely, because the slot is wider at the bottom, and so are the biscuits. The biscuit relevant to loudspeaker cabinets is the "Tenso," which has self-tensioning "claws" that exert 30 pounds of pull once the two facing pieces have been pushed together and the two parts of the Tenso snap together.
Bottom line: You can glue and snap together a flat pack, and there is no need for clamps, because the biscuits are self-tensioning.
However, for it to be worth USD$2500 to you, you have to have an operation that makes lots of cabinets. Or, you are a somewhat self-indulgent (mea culpa, but I have not yet bought one) amateur. I did see several demos at the Tool Show, and I did heft it, but they did not want people who walked in off the street playing with their power tools.
The original intention was to speed the installation of custom kitchen cabinets, but it seems to me that the usefulness for loudspeaker building is obvious.
ciao,
john
This amazing machine cuts an arc-shaped slot in the work piece that is wider at the bottom. How it accomplishes that has to be seen to be believed.
There are several varieties of high-tech "biscuits" that fit securely into those slots. Securely, because the slot is wider at the bottom, and so are the biscuits. The biscuit relevant to loudspeaker cabinets is the "Tenso," which has self-tensioning "claws" that exert 30 pounds of pull once the two facing pieces have been pushed together and the two parts of the Tenso snap together.
Bottom line: You can glue and snap together a flat pack, and there is no need for clamps, because the biscuits are self-tensioning.
However, for it to be worth USD$2500 to you, you have to have an operation that makes lots of cabinets. Or, you are a somewhat self-indulgent (mea culpa, but I have not yet bought one) amateur. I did see several demos at the Tool Show, and I did heft it, but they did not want people who walked in off the street playing with their power tools.
The original intention was to speed the installation of custom kitchen cabinets, but it seems to me that the usefulness for loudspeaker building is obvious.
ciao,
john
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YES YES YES YES YES YES YES !
You should have seen my jaw drop at the Tool Show!
At first, I thought that the cutter head or blade suddenly got wider and then got thinner. (DUUH.)
But then I saw that little cam or whatever engaging the "bumping" mechanism.
They were cutting slots, fitting the biscuits, and then (omitting the glue part) snapping together the work pieces. They had quite a crowd of onlookers.
I sent a memo to my design colleagues and clients, and one guy who is a designer and not a woodworker complained to me that he had almost bought one, it was so cool!
Now, I think that .75-inch stock would be easier to use this on, especially if you want corner-edge reveals or bevels or edge-protection fillets, as shown on this design. Those edge-protection fillets are Extreme Tiger Flame Maple, which cost me about $100 the Board Foot. The board those fillets were cut from was supposed to end up as sides for a high-end acoustical guitar or ukulele.
ciao,
john
You should have seen my jaw drop at the Tool Show!
At first, I thought that the cutter head or blade suddenly got wider and then got thinner. (DUUH.)
But then I saw that little cam or whatever engaging the "bumping" mechanism.
They were cutting slots, fitting the biscuits, and then (omitting the glue part) snapping together the work pieces. They had quite a crowd of onlookers.
I sent a memo to my design colleagues and clients, and one guy who is a designer and not a woodworker complained to me that he had almost bought one, it was so cool!
Now, I think that .75-inch stock would be easier to use this on, especially if you want corner-edge reveals or bevels or edge-protection fillets, as shown on this design. Those edge-protection fillets are Extreme Tiger Flame Maple, which cost me about $100 the Board Foot. The board those fillets were cut from was supposed to end up as sides for a high-end acoustical guitar or ukulele.
ciao,
john
Attachments
I guess they had to come up with something new since the original Lamello patent has run out long ago with more than one company offering biscuit joiners.
I still have the original Lamello machine for about 20 years now. And I must say that this is also very convenient although not as cool as the new one.
I still have the original Lamello machine for about 20 years now. And I must say that this is also very convenient although not as cool as the new one.
After using biscuit cutters for decades, I've grown weary of the slop in biscuit joints. For some time, I've been thinking about replacing my current Makita slot cutter with a Festool Domino -- not a cheap unit either. Any thoughts on the relative benefits of this new Lamello over the Domino? Most people that would consider a $2k+ joining solution have plenty of clamps, so no tremendous benefit of not needing clamps for the low-volume hobbyist that has a bit of time to invest.
My cabinetmaker Corwin Butterworth was trained at the legendary Rhode Island School of Design. He's stooping a bit to help me, in that his usual work is high-end dining-room tables, and custom hardwood beds, costing thousands of dollars. Corwin uses the Festool domino cutter and is happy with it; but AFAIK he has had no experience with the Zeta P2. If I have time I can look to see if any woodworking magazines have compared them.
As far as clamps go, I was thinking about woodworkers such as Peter Rawlings of YouTube fame, who has a panel-sized CNC mill and cuts up boards for 10 or a dozen loudspeaker cabinets at a time. That's a lot of labor to do all that sequential clamping. If he had the Zeta P2 he could just mill the Tenso biscuit slots and apply glue and snap the boards together.
But I agree that unless someone merely wants the Zeta P2 rather than needing it, because they make two cabinets per month max, that's a self-indulgence.
ciao,
john
As far as clamps go, I was thinking about woodworkers such as Peter Rawlings of YouTube fame, who has a panel-sized CNC mill and cuts up boards for 10 or a dozen loudspeaker cabinets at a time. That's a lot of labor to do all that sequential clamping. If he had the Zeta P2 he could just mill the Tenso biscuit slots and apply glue and snap the boards together.
But I agree that unless someone merely wants the Zeta P2 rather than needing it, because they make two cabinets per month max, that's a self-indulgence.
ciao,
john
Self-indulgence.... sounds like most of DIY audio! And I mean that in a good way. Is Peter Rawlings the guy that raves about the Euro slider saws? Now one of those would be indulgent. Keen to hear what you read in the wood magazines about the Lamello v. Domino.
Very smart invention. Cool showcase video.
I do hope fittings used is biodegradable or wood. It looks like plastic. If plastic VERY bad idea in these days of reuse
One better Cut perfect everytime Else it looks like one need to Saw things apart?
I do hope fittings used is biodegradable or wood. It looks like plastic. If plastic VERY bad idea in these days of reuse
One better Cut perfect everytime Else it looks like one need to Saw things apart?
the usual bisquits allow some lateral adjustements to compensate errors in the alignment of the cuts. wonder how the new zeta copes with that. smart machine though ...
Normal biscuit jointers are available for under £100, and with the spare couple of thousand one could buy some very nice clamps and probably all the drive units and crossovers too! Very clever, but overkill for most DIYers I feel.
Not much out there---
There's some info in the viewer comments, but you have to sift to get it.
and this is not really a comparison:
https://www.remodeling.hw.net/products/tools-equipment/lamello-zeta-p2-profile-biscuit-joiner_s
ciao,
john
One thing first: You will not build mechanicaly better speaker cabinets with this tool.
The connection is not as tough as a wood Lamello which is completely covered with glue and pressed. The weakest spots are the position of the plastic connectors.
If your panels are not 100% flat, the Zeta will not pull them together, as max. pressure is 15kg each. So you end up with Zeta plus clamps.
The initial cost of the machine is not what makes it expensive, the connectors are expensive too with more than 1$ a piece. Wood Lamello's come at 10$ per 1.000 pieces.
If time is the most important factor and the strenght of an average IKEA furniture is enough, this system may be an option.
Service work, where you install extra panels at the customers home, like in kitchen building, may be a place for these "Click and forget" things, as you do not have to wait for glue to dry.
The most interesting option are the connectors with the allen key, as you may take them apart again a few times. Even as these are not made for permanent assembly-disassembly, as the connectors will get loose in the raw wood.
Last point is the skill needed to use this tool. You can do too many things wrong with these connectors. If you do not position the machine right, even a fraction of a millimeter tollerance will give you a huge problem. The guys on youtube are professionals, who have used Lamello tools for years. In the video anything seems logical and intuitve, in reality you must measure, mark and calculate a lot, think mirror wise and check twice before routing.
I have seen what untrained personal can do with a Lamello tool: In the end the wood looked like Swiss cheese.
You really have to learn how to use this tool and will always have the manual in reach, so you can look up the different settings for different tasks and wood dimensions. No easy peasy...
The connection is not as tough as a wood Lamello which is completely covered with glue and pressed. The weakest spots are the position of the plastic connectors.
If your panels are not 100% flat, the Zeta will not pull them together, as max. pressure is 15kg each. So you end up with Zeta plus clamps.
The initial cost of the machine is not what makes it expensive, the connectors are expensive too with more than 1$ a piece. Wood Lamello's come at 10$ per 1.000 pieces.
If time is the most important factor and the strenght of an average IKEA furniture is enough, this system may be an option.
Service work, where you install extra panels at the customers home, like in kitchen building, may be a place for these "Click and forget" things, as you do not have to wait for glue to dry.
The most interesting option are the connectors with the allen key, as you may take them apart again a few times. Even as these are not made for permanent assembly-disassembly, as the connectors will get loose in the raw wood.
Last point is the skill needed to use this tool. You can do too many things wrong with these connectors. If you do not position the machine right, even a fraction of a millimeter tollerance will give you a huge problem. The guys on youtube are professionals, who have used Lamello tools for years. In the video anything seems logical and intuitve, in reality you must measure, mark and calculate a lot, think mirror wise and check twice before routing.
I have seen what untrained personal can do with a Lamello tool: In the end the wood looked like Swiss cheese.
You really have to learn how to use this tool and will always have the manual in reach, so you can look up the different settings for different tasks and wood dimensions. No easy peasy...
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Well, my assumption was that for loudspeaker work, the entirety of the mating surfaces would be covered with glue. I have even seem videos where they spritz glue into the Tenso clamp itself.
My second assumption was that the Zeta P2 would be a good solution when someone (like Peter Rawlings) is selling CKD MDF flat-pack loudspeaker-cabinet kits to audio hobbyists who are NOT woodworking hobbyists. And therefore they do not own clamps.
Gluing and snapping together the flatpack seemed to me preferable to Peter's customer having to buy half a dozen clamps, some of which will have to have openings greater than 12 inches. And which then will gather dust.
ciao,
john
My second assumption was that the Zeta P2 would be a good solution when someone (like Peter Rawlings) is selling CKD MDF flat-pack loudspeaker-cabinet kits to audio hobbyists who are NOT woodworking hobbyists. And therefore they do not own clamps.
Gluing and snapping together the flatpack seemed to me preferable to Peter's customer having to buy half a dozen clamps, some of which will have to have openings greater than 12 inches. And which then will gather dust.
ciao,
john
Lamello's "Divario" connectors seem to allow wiggle room--I hope I have that right. Um, seems to be, it can wiggle left to right but not up and down.
ciao,
john
IMO, it will never be anything but another gimmick……. serious joinery uses clamps! The only semi useful thing about it might be for holding large units together while clamping, but then as mentioned theres that loss of strength from lack of bonding area…….and filling the plastic/void full of glue is not even close to the same.
Again just my opinion based on decades of professional experience. 😎
Again just my opinion based on decades of professional experience. 😎
I am inclined to agree with bob. Even if you compare this biscuit system to a wood biscuit system, you have different bond strengths between the glue and material, and no option to orient grain lines in the joint (injection molded plastic in not a 'directional' material).
I think it has a place in the "I want Ikea furniture I made myself" sector or perhaps some other month-end quick and dirty joinery scenario but for long-lasting and solid bonds without resonance issues... Hmmmmm. It seems it would also change the behavior of the wood a lot?
Tap on a board with a hole and it sounds wildly different than a solid board.
But Bob, are kitchen cabinets serious joinery? I thought it was quick and dirty carcasses with pretty hardwood doors almost everywhere now? if freds kitchens can save a few hours on the carcasses that's more $$$ to be made.
Did I ever mention I hate you Bill ! 🤣
what really blows my mind is these box store cabinets that go into million dollar homes here at the beach!
what really blows my mind is these box store cabinets that go into million dollar homes here at the beach!
Bob, you know I admire the fact that you build things from first principles, including chopping the tree down.
Bill,
I have the pieces of three maple trees drying in my yard. Another few years should do it.
I have some wood aging now for more than 30 years waiting for the right project. I picked those pieces for their grain figure. Working them too soon results in warpage. Humidity tester says they should be fine this winter.
Of course around here Walnut and many types of Maple grow nicely.
I have the pieces of three maple trees drying in my yard. Another few years should do it.
I have some wood aging now for more than 30 years waiting for the right project. I picked those pieces for their grain figure. Working them too soon results in warpage. Humidity tester says they should be fine this winter.
Of course around here Walnut and many types of Maple grow nicely.
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