Have you seen this observation comparing frequency response of the Alpair 7.3 to a small conventional 2-way?
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...r-6-2p-7-3m-scan-speak-10f-diy-speakers.2955/
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...r-6-2p-7-3m-scan-speak-10f-diy-speakers.2955/
It seems to be a trade off:
"So these 2-ways do some things better than the single drivers. There seems to be better treble extension and sparkle...Listening from different positions is so much better."
vs
"However, the Rega’s just sound overall noticeably flat in comparison, especially in the mids. There’s clearly less of a sense of music coming ... this is much more tangible on the Alpairs".
When it came to everything above 250Hz or so, the 4" Scan-Speak 10F is pretty good, except they don't seem to be "quite as smooth, warm and fluid as the Alpairs in the mids".
How do the 8414's (full-range version of the 8424) compare with the Alpair 7s or MAOP 7 (since you seem to have heard all 3).
Is Jeb on Diyaudio? He doesn't seem active on SABF (his last post on SABF is in 2017, and the last post about loudspeakers is the thread we have both already read).
The MAOP (both sizes) are out of stock in India (to be honest, I don't think they were ever in stock). I have hence asked Adam at Madisound for a quote.
I took it another way.
We listen to music, we don't watch it on a scope. So whichever speaker gets us closer to the music wins. It doesn't matter if it's flat, round, square or a piece of cardboard attached to an aura bass shaker.
I want to be able to listen to music at 80db and at 105db with equal enjoyment. Most speakers can do the latter but aren't as enjoyable at 80db. I remember an advert from the 80s that read, "Did your speakers sound better last night".
Even my current pair (using SEAS Excel woofers and mids with a Fountek ribbon) fall into this category. I expect/hope that a loudspeaker designed around a full range would give me both palpable enjoyment at 80db and (using a woofer to reduce excursion stress) at 95db, if not 105db.
I assume the Alpair 7p + 12pw combo can hit 95db easily. I remember you designed this cabinet some time back. I expect the MAOP 7 + 4 SEAS woofers will go louder than the Alpair 7p + 12pw.
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Mark Audio made some statements in 2014 (see link). Does this mean that I would need to use my speakers with a subwoofer at all times?
"However, for those who can't resist the attraction towards big-boys toys and/or are "play loud rock-un-rollers", Markaudio drivers shouldn't be their first choice. It's simply a question of picking the right gear for the particular job guys have in mind."
"....if Markaudio drivers are used in mixed systems where a heavy bass load is done by a larger suitable driver, there's no technical reason not to "rock and roll."
Some may notice that Mark's posts are not verbatim. I have corrected only grammar and spelling but kept the content intact.
Source: Post #108 and #112 here https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-7p-alpair-12pw-combination.260714/page-6
That said, the bass section of my systems has grown progressively smaller.
1987-1994 - 2 JBL 2245 (B460) woofers - 1 per channel
1995-2003 - 4 Audio Concepts DV12 woofer - 2 per channel
2011- now - 1 TC LMS-R 15 (front) + 1 TC Sounds LMS-R 12 (rear)
"However, for those who can't resist the attraction towards big-boys toys and/or are "play loud rock-un-rollers", Markaudio drivers shouldn't be their first choice. It's simply a question of picking the right gear for the particular job guys have in mind."
"....if Markaudio drivers are used in mixed systems where a heavy bass load is done by a larger suitable driver, there's no technical reason not to "rock and roll."
Some may notice that Mark's posts are not verbatim. I have corrected only grammar and spelling but kept the content intact.
Source: Post #108 and #112 here https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-7p-alpair-12pw-combination.260714/page-6
That said, the bass section of my systems has grown progressively smaller.
1987-1994 - 2 JBL 2245 (B460) woofers - 1 per channel
1995-2003 - 4 Audio Concepts DV12 woofer - 2 per channel
2011- now - 1 TC LMS-R 15 (front) + 1 TC Sounds LMS-R 12 (rear)
It is true, not only Mark Audio thou.
As per both Toole & Geddes, one needs multiple woofers separately placed to get really good LOW bass response.
Now whether you need the atmospheric support is only a question you can answer.
My A12pw MTMs go as low as my subwoofers (which are only used at this point to holed up my equipment shelf), and my room is really good. But that is adding woofer support to the A7.3eN.
Basically MA is saying if you want really low, loud bass (with any system) one needs a WAW or, given most rooms) multiple helper woofers below 80Hz.
Now an MA driver in FHXL, Joan, or SuperPensil do produce significant bass.
dave
As per both Toole & Geddes, one needs multiple woofers separately placed to get really good LOW bass response.
Now whether you need the atmospheric support is only a question you can answer.
My A12pw MTMs go as low as my subwoofers (which are only used at this point to holed up my equipment shelf), and my room is really good. But that is adding woofer support to the A7.3eN.
Basically MA is saying if you want really low, loud bass (with any system) one needs a WAW or, given most rooms) multiple helper woofers below 80Hz.
Now an MA driver in FHXL, Joan, or SuperPensil do produce significant bass.
dave
A12PWs go as low as your subwoofers? Surely they can't match subwoofers for SPL.
Exactly why I am considering 4 16cm woofers to complement the MAOP 7. Maybe the SEAS L16 won't go as low as the A12PWs (I haven't run a simulation on the A12PWs), but I am hoping they will give a decent in-room response until at least 50Hz.
What is the difference between an FHXL and a Joan? Both are horns. I know that much.
Hi, I had a similar idea. I could use all the help I could get.
I am half-certain that the SEAS L16RN-SL (H1480) might be the best bet as the more suitable H1488 (Seas L16RNX) is not available in the quantities needed. Dave, Scottmoose, Allen and several others have chipped in.
A couple of my posts on this topic:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-markaudio-drivers.324962/page-110#post-7103072
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-markaudio-drivers.324962/page-104#post-7032652
I am now wondering if I should include a tweeter to compensate for the limited HF dispersion of the full range. The first option is to let the full range run from 200hz on up and have the tweeter on the rear of the cabinet. The other option is to use the full range as a wide range and cross the tweeter to the full range at somewhere between 5k and 8k.
See posts here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/maop7-passive-crossover-waw.389182/#post-7105907
You could try but i expect it will degrade the sonics. Particularily things like image/soundstage.
dave
Even if I use a tweeter on the rear, or use the full range like a wide-mid-range and have a 2nd order crossover HP/LP between the tweeter and the full range?
If we had a 3-way using a woofer (4 x SEAS, SB, etc.), an MAOP 7 and a tweeter (Fountek Neo CD 1.0 or Neo CD 3.0), wouldn't it have the same imaging challenges as most "traditional" 3-way speakers?
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Tweeter on the top or back can work well. But the room will dictate.
Imaging/soundstage get screwed up by a front facing tweeter as the XO will disrupt the envelope the harmonics sit in, the small bits of information that allow for the image/soundstage illusion get lost (or moved).
dave
Imaging/soundstage get screwed up by a front facing tweeter as the XO will disrupt the envelope the harmonics sit in, the small bits of information that allow for the image/soundstage illusion get lost (or moved).
dave
I have MAOP 7 in a 7l sealed box siting over a pair of eq'd sealed 12's in a system. I've listened to them for the past year and have zero need for more high-end extension. An additional tweeter seems pointless. Dispersion is subjective fine, although they fire toward the long axis of the room. I also have A12PW that I enjoy. I'm building a new enclosure for them at the moment and will use a wg tweeter for the highs likely crossed somewhere north of 5kHz.
