I've observed there are two camps in speakers area.... those who focus on cabinet models, and those who go with OB or horns/TL or a mix of OB/horns.
Examples of brands which recently (last year, few years) joined OB camp: Aries Cerat, Legacy, Jamo.
How about these TITANS of audio industry?
So heres my little conspiracy theory! All these companies would rather want customers not to know how OB can be build, how they sound vs box speakers, etc. Guess why? $$$$$$$$$ Big fat income.
Vice versa, most famous OB makers are small: Bastanis, SoundKaos, Spatial, PureAudioProject.
Similar thing can be observed with FULL Range , single driver designs - these are mostly very small companies.
Thoughts?
Examples of brands which recently (last year, few years) joined OB camp: Aries Cerat, Legacy, Jamo.
How about these TITANS of audio industry?
- Wilson
- Wilson Benesch
- Rockport
- Magico
- KEF
- Raidho
- Polk
- Klipsch
- Tannoy
- Monitor Audio
- ATC
- Gryphon
- B&W
- Dali
- Sonus Faber
- Focal
So heres my little conspiracy theory! All these companies would rather want customers not to know how OB can be build, how they sound vs box speakers, etc. Guess why? $$$$$$$$$ Big fat income.
Vice versa, most famous OB makers are small: Bastanis, SoundKaos, Spatial, PureAudioProject.
Similar thing can be observed with FULL Range , single driver designs - these are mostly very small companies.
Thoughts?
Ob would be cheaper to manufacture due to fewer materials and cheaper to ship for obvious reasons.
If those manufacturers thought their customers might buy, they'd be on that like white on rice.
No conspiracy necessary.
I know what I tend to like and it historically hasn't been open baffle.
Reggae is not compatable with open baffle... Some music is, but not Reggae.
If those manufacturers thought their customers might buy, they'd be on that like white on rice.
No conspiracy necessary.
I know what I tend to like and it historically hasn't been open baffle.
Reggae is not compatable with open baffle... Some music is, but not Reggae.
You are making the assumption that an OB is better than a closed box. That is not true.
The room rules, and OBs do have a common compromise, something i personally find intolerable long term.
DIYers often flock to OB because they are not “boxy" sounding. That, i believe, is down to all the crappy MDF cabinets. BTW the “boxiest” speaker i have every heard was an OB.
A box speaker also can reproduce more, and lower bass than an OB for a lot less cost. And i find there is a tendency towards sysyems with too much bass.
None of those manufactures mentioned will build a commercial OB (i have seen some in the research labs).
dave
The room rules, and OBs do have a common compromise, something i personally find intolerable long term.
DIYers often flock to OB because they are not “boxy" sounding. That, i believe, is down to all the crappy MDF cabinets. BTW the “boxiest” speaker i have every heard was an OB.
A box speaker also can reproduce more, and lower bass than an OB for a lot less cost. And i find there is a tendency towards sysyems with too much bass.
None of those manufactures mentioned will build a commercial OB (i have seen some in the research labs).
dave
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Except that you need so much greater bass driver costs, and an OB needs to be big, i would expect no net savings. And, given a “proper” design “box” offers greater natual rigidity due to its shape a proper OB will not cost less and construction may be need to be of more elaborate construction.
dave
Jamo used to sell some big ones. They looked rather nice, I've seen them in person, but never heard them.
They don't make OBs because box speakers are easier to make work in a wider variety of rooms, and they do bass.
I think it's more like most people know how a boxed speaker sounds and expect that characteristic, so to "tune" your product towards what most customers expect, is surely the route to $$.
Jensen once made a concentric coaxial targeted to the automotive sound market. All others had their tweeters on posts / frames, some distance "out / above" the woofer cone. Try to find one of those Jensens today. The "time-align" as a natural aspect of the speaker just didnt fit into what that market expected, after everyone hearing for years and years and years the sound of a non-time aligned, "post mounted" tweeter.
In other words, it just didnt sound right - to them - and subsequently died in that market. I think OB would suffer similarly in an attempt as a mass market speaker design - most potential customers would think "it doesnt sound right!" - particularly the bass. Where's the pressure wave? It's not bass if it doesnt sail through concrete cinder block walls!
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I listened to them years ago (two different models, 907 and 909) and from memory they sounded quite nice.
Yep, good argument about costs vs low extension. As we all now big companies must calculate $ costs, profits etc.
also, we can make argument that most buyers dont have enough space for OBs. Or simply prefer smaller speakers.
From this angle, Devialet model which reaches 18Hz and is extremely small... and active.....its marketing people wet dream.
However! My point is, these big companies do not offer even one, just one model which will be OB. Just one.
My audition with them did not leave a positive impression.
How about KEF LSX Meta?
dave
They would all produce OB speakers if people wanted to buy OB speakers. The one or two commercial companies that did manufacture them such as Jamo discontinued them after a while presumably because of insufficient sales.
So why don't people want OB speakers? They are big, ugly, inefficient and on balance sound worse than competently designed conventional speakers. They are a design configuration for some DIY enthusiasts and it is hard to see much wrong with that.
So why don't people want OB speakers? They are big, ugly, inefficient and on balance sound worse than competently designed conventional speakers. They are a design configuration for some DIY enthusiasts and it is hard to see much wrong with that.
I spent over a year working at one of those companies. Building/testing/repairing the speakers. I left for a variety of reasons, and one of them was that I didn't believe in the products. It's difficult to be enthusiastic about something that measures badly and sounds poor.
I can think of a few reasons why they might avoid OB. Even if that particular company could pull off the R&D side of it, the fact remains that it's likely to be a poor business decision. Very few people want OBs, and a tiny fraction are willing to pay the £10s-of-thousands that would fit in with the pricing structure.
Chris
I can think of a few reasons why they might avoid OB. Even if that particular company could pull off the R&D side of it, the fact remains that it's likely to be a poor business decision. Very few people want OBs, and a tiny fraction are willing to pay the £10s-of-thousands that would fit in with the pricing structure.
Chris
My first O.B. was years ago with a Fostex FE206E drivers back in 2001. I never made one and it had a Clarity I have heard but, that’s where it began and ended. You deal with xmax of a driver and room reflection’s and bass and crossover’s passive or active l. So I have heard a few O.B’s in my time. One of them was Hawthorne Valley (Nice guy) and it sounded big but, no bass and the midrange was nothing special. What bothered me was the huge mundurf cross over parts and the huge coil. It costed more for the crossover then the speaker drivers and the oak frame with sided leather trim. The drivers were cheaply made and cost a arm and a leg to buy. Again this is my observation and experience. I didn’t stay in that listening room long. I also got to see the Nola (I hope I got the name right) Tweeter and midrange in a open baffle and the bass driver’s in a ported box down below. They looked very nice and never heard them. I know it’s a touchy subject but, it didn’t work for me.
I did not like those at all. Very unnatural sound, and, as for the bass, even more so.
You can't get bass from what is really only a midrange driver.
There are relatively few people who are willing to spend more than $1000 on a pair of speakers. Of those that do, even fewer will want (or be willing to tolerate) a large flat panel pushed out into the middle of the room... and for those few folks who meet this criteria and want a dipole experience, companies like Magnepan and Martin-Logan will satisfy the market for most potential customers.
It is the same with some other very interesting technologies... shaded line arrays, multi-entry horns... Great ideas, very high performance potential, but not many potential customers.
It is the same with some other very interesting technologies... shaded line arrays, multi-entry horns... Great ideas, very high performance potential, but not many potential customers.
It's hard enough to find people with balls so big that they can put the matter on the edge of marriage dissolution and get the speakers with BIG .......8" (20cm) woofers .
Open baffle might be a tough sell when cabinet technology is a big part of what you do.
It also gives the company sound they have worked hard to develop.
It also gives the company sound they have worked hard to develop.
The KEF LSX, essentially a "hot-rodded" full-ranger....four inch driver. For about a third the price, a KRK Rocket five inch two-way studio monitor would be the better value & I'd bet would sound superior.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..