I've used a triplet of these drivers in a H baffle and actually found the sensitivity to be very good.
Triplet you say?
Very good? How good - 85dB, 88dB, 92dB?
According to Basta! 3 of these will barely make 87dB once a simple xover, a 5mH coil is inserted between them and an amp.
86.72dB for 3 x 12 inch woofers in parallel. And that is for one speaker, 6 are needed for a stereo pair.
Surely there are better ways to spend money and achieve good results.
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I'm not sure what voltage level your sim is at, but you should be seeing around 95dB/2.83V/1M mid band.
I wasn't aware this was for a passively crossed ob loudspeaker. They are very difficult to get right.
I wasn't aware this was for a passively crossed ob loudspeaker. They are very difficult to get right.
You could start with the Manzanita, use one or two of the GRS 15s, and add the GRS planar. The 10F is very similar to the TC9.
That would allow you to start with something well-regarded, then tweak to add the tweeter.
Posts 2762 and 2773 show a 3-way design. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fast-fun-inexpensive-ob-project.110583/post-6885337
@Pano may know some details about three way OBs the late great John Busch designed.
That would allow you to start with something well-regarded, then tweak to add the tweeter.
Posts 2762 and 2773 show a 3-way design. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fast-fun-inexpensive-ob-project.110583/post-6885337
@Pano may know some details about three way OBs the late great John Busch designed.
Hi William,
can you give some more information about this triplet design? I have 6 of these drivers, currently unused.
Thanks! Erik
Maybe consider the 10F/8424GO0 in spite of the other 10F you chose.
Of course you aren't sure. If you played with Basta you would know that it is the standard 2.83V @ 8ohm @ 1m.
A little secret: if you want to simulate OB there is nothing better than Basta!
If you don't believe me just ask Martin J. King, I'm sure you know this name.
This is for one of your drivers only, no xover:
And then 3 of them in parallel, no xover again:
Your midband sensitivity is not even 95dB before the xover.
Once you apply your xover or EQ if you want, you get this:
Simple really. Passive or active, 1st or 4th order, the main idea is the same. And passive ones are not more difficult to get right, quite the opposite with the right drivers.
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I am not a specialist but if open baffle I would look sole inspiration from Pano's thread about low cost OB.
OB work best in the lows with drivers that have qts of around 0.7 and up, 0.7 to 0.9 seems a good trade off.
I would have a look at SB Audience for the 12' not SB Acoustics. Cutt ovf around 600 to 700 for the highs seems ok... it is around + F2 912 dB roll off if you sim on The Edge for instance. The xMak of the 10F is a challenge in an OB (do not expect party level) Maybe a Faital 3" instead? A faital 10fe200 seems to have good qts and efficienty till the lows though limited xmax but I would try a sim to see what it can stand in the lows.
See also what did Juhazi member with his Ainogradient design : till 100 hz in the how but with active lifting with a Beyma 12". The 12" efficienty and Xmax in OB has to see with your listening distance... if close, say less than 2 meters, it will be easier for spl level.
Hope that helps.
OB work best in the lows with drivers that have qts of around 0.7 and up, 0.7 to 0.9 seems a good trade off.
I would have a look at SB Audience for the 12' not SB Acoustics. Cutt ovf around 600 to 700 for the highs seems ok... it is around + F2 912 dB roll off if you sim on The Edge for instance. The xMak of the 10F is a challenge in an OB (do not expect party level) Maybe a Faital 3" instead? A faital 10fe200 seems to have good qts and efficienty till the lows though limited xmax but I would try a sim to see what it can stand in the lows.
See also what did Juhazi member with his Ainogradient design : till 100 hz in the how but with active lifting with a Beyma 12". The 12" efficienty and Xmax in OB has to see with your listening distance... if close, say less than 2 meters, it will be easier for spl level.
Hope that helps.
I completely agree - Basta! is great for quick 'n' dirty modelling of OB designs. And that can can save a lot of wasted time and money. (To model an OB design in Basta!, just select "Baffle" as the box type - and don't forget to click the "Enable" button in the Baffle Designer window.)
You might want to do sims with the drivers you are considering?
Hornresp is handy as it looks at Xmax SPL limits on OB. This is a limiter of the lower freq extension for drivers on an OB. Ignore that and the driver might easily exceed Xmax with higher distortion. As an example for your Scanspeak Discovery 10F/8414G-10 full range
Using a full range gives the possible benefit of no cross over in the midrange. Mids can be defined as going down to 200Hz by some. So it would be interesting to use a digital XO so you can try different configs. If you use a XO that mimics the red line the Scanspeak will stay within its more linear Xmax under 200Hz.
Then you could model a 12" OB woofer for say 70-200Hz with a planar tweeter > 4000Hz.
Under 70Hz can be a challenge. Might be worth trying nearfield mono OB <70Hz with digital delay?
Ok, noted. That is good advice. Yeah, I need to convince one of my friends to buy a Linkwitz Mini so I can borrow their minidsp... Lol.
Yes, you're right that I was a bit silly to suggest a particular driver without any modelling or citations of other drivers I want to use. I will rephrase my question:
Are there drivers available which can play down to 550Hz in a moderately sized OB and up to 4-5KHz with wide and uniform dispersion?
Intuitively, I feel a speaker around 4" would be the best in between, but I am absolutely open to suggestions. Does anyone have any drivers recommendations I can put on my shortlist to model? Thanks!
Basta! will also show you the excursion and power limits for any driver you enter, on any baffle of your choosing. 🙂
@Bryguy I would encourage you to put a little time into playing with some sim software - it will give you answers to lots of your questions, and give you much more understanding of the design choices available to you. There are other software options (hornresp has been mentioned, and Vituixcad is very powerful), that offer additional design capabilities. But Basta! has less of a learning curve. You can play with different drivers, different baffle shapes and sizes, box sizes (if you aren't going OB), passive and active crossover elements etc. It incorporates the diffraction modelling of Edge (written by the same person). It takes away a lot of guesswork. I recommend it!
Alright. I will check it out, and until then, I'll zip it 🙂
Thanks for the advice folks
The 10F 8414G10 has a 19.4 mm voice coil, does it help if it has a neodymium magnet structure? The 8414 is meant as a full range driver and has an open basket beneath the spider.
The 10F 8424G00 has a 20 mm voice coil, basked closed beneath the spider and meant for use as a midrange driver. Different (bigger) magnet too and more x-max (2.6 mm vs 2.3 of the 8414).
Here you find reliable T&S https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/seas-mu10rb-sl-or-scanspeak-10f-4424g.230301/post-3375207
Hum the link above is dead, here another https://www.dibirama.altervista.org...f-8424g00-extended-range-4-8-ohm-30-wmax.html