with reference to the Helios speaker design displaying the ability of wo24p in a compact 35 litre cabinet with passive radiator
, I am wondering why would people still chose 15pr400 as their bass driver,
what qualities wo 24 p is missing from 15pr400 except from the efficiency it self. is there a big sound difference between a 15 inch woofer and 9.5 inch woofer
, I am wondering why would people still chose 15pr400 as their bass driver,
what qualities wo 24 p is missing from 15pr400 except from the efficiency it self. is there a big sound difference between a 15 inch woofer and 9.5 inch woofer
Sure, there is a big difference between the 15" and 9.5" drivers. The larger driver will produce the lower mid range with more authority.
Comes down to what you need out of the loudspeakers. If you have a larger area for listening, you probably should go for the larger driver. Medium to smaller sized rooms may be fine with the 9,5" driver ... have to consider the difference in enclosure size here as well.
It really just comes down to the differences in driver Sd and their individual overhead as far as driver distortion and compression at higher SPL's.
Comes down to what you need out of the loudspeakers. If you have a larger area for listening, you probably should go for the larger driver. Medium to smaller sized rooms may be fine with the 9,5" driver ... have to consider the difference in enclosure size here as well.
It really just comes down to the differences in driver Sd and their individual overhead as far as driver distortion and compression at higher SPL's.
I went through JBL 2220H, JBL 2225H 15 inch, JBL K140 15 inch, and then 15PR400. I think 15PR400 was a bit weak, magnet wise, but clean sounding for being a 15 inch woofer. It did kot have the authority in the midbass like the K140 had. It was a bit of a disappointment. So I rebuilt the chassis to house a Seas Excel W26FX002 10" driver. I always liked 8" drivers, but when not in a horn, it needs more surface. 10" is perfect. The cone is 50% lighter than an average 15" which has to be as stiff as an Ikea carton box to hold together. And it naturally goes deep, which is enough in a small room. I don't miss subwoofers.
Hi,
What is "more authority" please? More spl ? More what ?
What is the size, circa, of a small or medium room ?
What is the average level of your playback level at home ?
Would like to understand if it is a radiation patern thing or so...
What is "more authority" please? More spl ? More what ?
What is the size, circa, of a small or medium room ?
What is the average level of your playback level at home ?
Would like to understand if it is a radiation patern thing or so...
many thx. i wont order the faital 15pr400 because of your comment here
however, what does it change if a 15" cone is twice the weight? the good one have motor to match their cone weight.
Audax PR24Z0 ?
10"
1.4 T.
Qts around 0.4 (sealed for good group delay?)
Rms good enough and 45g cone weigth made from aerogel.
Not big sensivity 90 db but 200 to 300hz XO should help with room gain ?
For rooms beliw 40 square meters ?
10"
1.4 T.
Qts around 0.4 (sealed for good group delay?)
Rms good enough and 45g cone weigth made from aerogel.
Not big sensivity 90 db but 200 to 300hz XO should help with room gain ?
For rooms beliw 40 square meters ?
I meant 10" cones have half the weight of 15" drivers. There was a big debate if a 15" is more efficient than let say a 10", and it turns out it is, but that is not a problem in living room 4x4x2.36m like mine.
Sometimes 10" drivers are delivered with a smaller magnet than a 15" but that can be fixed with a bucking magnet. With a bucking magnet I found the sound became more intense. Kick drum kicked a little harder, the midbass sound moved a little quicker. It also helped a little with a 43Hz that peak I was experiencing. But it was a bit tiresome in the end so I sold the bucking magnet. Also not sure if a bucking magnet can alter the original magnet.
Sometimes 10" drivers are delivered with a smaller magnet than a 15" but that can be fixed with a bucking magnet. With a bucking magnet I found the sound became more intense. Kick drum kicked a little harder, the midbass sound moved a little quicker. It also helped a little with a 43Hz that peak I was experiencing. But it was a bit tiresome in the end so I sold the bucking magnet. Also not sure if a bucking magnet can alter the original magnet.
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Thanks...giving size room helps.
Bigger size comes with stiffer cones most of the time perhaps ?
Did you try heavy cones like Earl G. ?
Would like to understand why a bigger cone sounds better than a littlier at iso spl and power response curve.
Should be different radiation pattern or way of air impedance transfer, or ...less electo motion feedback to the amp ? Bigger VAS ?
There were debat but never clear evidence imho. Anyway off topic here. Speed has to see with the flatness of power response and the opposit happens : bigger cones moves slower than little cones to reach the same spl because it has to reach more elongation at iso spl. But both sizes move fast enough to reach the spl. Subjective speed feeling and tigthness has to see with phase and upper harmonics made above.
Maybe heat decrease the spl of the littlier driver though and more elongation gives more electro back motion in the amp hence the liking of bigger bass drivers...I guess but I do not know.
@ youknowyou... all the guys having heard the Kalapamos were happy with the Faital. I think it is in the load construction quality and group delay. Try maybe sealed....
Bigger size comes with stiffer cones most of the time perhaps ?
Did you try heavy cones like Earl G. ?
Would like to understand why a bigger cone sounds better than a littlier at iso spl and power response curve.
Should be different radiation pattern or way of air impedance transfer, or ...less electo motion feedback to the amp ? Bigger VAS ?
There were debat but never clear evidence imho. Anyway off topic here. Speed has to see with the flatness of power response and the opposit happens : bigger cones moves slower than little cones to reach the same spl because it has to reach more elongation at iso spl. But both sizes move fast enough to reach the spl. Subjective speed feeling and tigthness has to see with phase and upper harmonics made above.
Maybe heat decrease the spl of the littlier driver though and more elongation gives more electro back motion in the amp hence the liking of bigger bass drivers...I guess but I do not know.
@ youknowyou... all the guys having heard the Kalapamos were happy with the Faital. I think it is in the load construction quality and group delay. Try maybe sealed....
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I think it comes down to weight of the cone. A smaller cone will alway weigh less and because of this have less distortion and can be crossed both lower and higher.
Most 15" I have tried are only good for 60-300Hz, and if you are not so picky with sound quality, maybe 60-700Hz.
Most 15" I have tried are only good for 60-300Hz, and if you are not so picky with sound quality, maybe 60-700Hz.
If the 15PR400 have a weak magnet system (compared to it's moving mass of course), then what about the WOP24? Let's see: (BL x BL x Re)/Mms, derived from the T/S parameters, the 15PR400 got 16,69 , the WOP24 got 12,77. The 15PR400 wins easily. The acoustical efficiency between these two have even larger gap because the 15PR400 have more than 3 times the Sd of the WOP24. The 15PR400 is about 3% and the WOP24 is about 0,3% efficient.
http://www.dibirama.altervista.org/...tics-wo24p-8-woofer-9-1-2-8-ohm-180-wmax.html
http://www.dibirama.altervista.org/...aital-15pr400-8-woofer-15-8-ohm-800-wmax.html
http://www.dibirama.altervista.org/...tics-wo24p-8-woofer-9-1-2-8-ohm-180-wmax.html
http://www.dibirama.altervista.org/...aital-15pr400-8-woofer-15-8-ohm-800-wmax.html
I was not comparing the 15PR400 to a 10". Apples and peers.
I was comparing it to a JBL K140 with BL 22.3. Together with an stronger alnico magnet, and a aluminium dustcone with extra midrange detail/distortion. Alnico magnets also gives a more pronounced and sweeter midrange. Coming from that and trying the 15PR400, I was a little disappointed. Clean though. But midbass and upper midrange was a bit undefined.
Of course, but the starting question was about the 15PR400 vs WOP24.
Do you know the T/S data of the JBL K140?
So it is a pattern thing so and how the waves arrive to the ears and interact with the room then.
To the op : if XO is higther than 400 the Faital 12pr320 is said to be more acurate in the low mid where the fondation of voices is (100 200 hz)
To the op : if XO is higther than 400 the Faital 12pr320 is said to be more acurate in the low mid where the fondation of voices is (100 200 hz)
The WOP24 looks like it has a smalleragnet than what I am using as a 10". Both seem a bit boring to me.
What you say about speaker cone weight makes logical sense, but in practise, its completely false.
a quality pro woofer 15" will generally always be faster sounding then 10".
"
What is "faster"? Can we define it as a technical quantity?
My definition of "fast" is BL (in N per A) divided by moving mass.
Say moving mass of 215g and a BL of 21.8N/A means 21.8 Kg/ms^2 / 0.215kG = 101ms^2 per Ampere.
So 1A will produce a momenung of 101ms^2 per Ampere in the voice coil.
Let's compare to a "High End" 5.25" Woofer. It has 5.7N/A and 13g. It indeed has 438ms^2 per Ampere. So 1 Ampere will accelerate the cone 4.3 times as much as the 18" Cone.
BUT, for a given SPL, the 5.25" woofer with 95 sqcm cone area has to move nearly 14 times as far compared the 18" with 1320 sqcm cone area.
So for a required 14 times increase in moved distance, we will have only a 4.3 times increase on acceleration.
So if take acceleration times cone area (in sqm) are we get a "speed factor".
101 * 0.132 = 13.332
438 * 0.0095 = 4.161
Conclusion, relative to the required movement the "slow" 18" Woofer can accelerate 3.2 times as fast.
"
I dont think throwing a plate amp into the bass unit is a proper solution for speaker building, else we should be using electronic crossover in all of our bass mid bass, mid and high speakers. Although I do realize that troels and gryphon speaker using seperate amp for the bass woofer but i guess one less pony in your system one less problem to deal with.
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looking at below 500hz
Rewind nailed the typical roomized 4x4x2.36m
ultimate goal is trying to replciate a morden compact effecient dynaucio consequence, I think we have most of the mid - bass to high freqency driver unit in the diy market. But I found there is not enough bass driver infomration in net, especailly comparing with a high performance driver wo24p vs a common 15 inch driver which troel select to clone JBL woofer.
(Yes I know the consequence is using isobaric for the bass drivers section but it doesnt mean morden drivers with the latest tech cant replicate what they did with a smaller cabinet size !)
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