Im sticking this in a section so nobody gets upset. About posting in the wrong section.
Here is my question. How do I create a cross over with zero info on the speakers.
The issue is if you want to get speakers with all the tech specs. They cost a lot. Im talking more than 3 times the price.
Im building my speakers using el-cheapo speakers. Which come with Zero tech specs. You go to a shop. You decide what size you want and what watts.
They test it for you. That's it. I still think a good cross over would help them sound better.
Im starting out in this as a hobby. I have no idea what I will like. What will work. What will not.
So Im not going to drop a lot of money into some drivers I may like or not like. Because I have no idea what size of woofer will satisfy my need for heavy bass.
What size of mid will match the woofer. I still need to see what size speakers work. Will an 8 inch woofer work for the kind of bass I like. Or do I need a 12 inch woofer. If I use a 12 inch woofer how large should my midrange speaker be.
Have been going thru speaker box designs on various sites seeing how they combine speakers.
All I want is nice clear music with good bass. My amp will put out about 60-70 watts RMS. They claim 200 watts per channel.
Im lost and need some advice.Have purchased 3 amps. and 3 preamp / tone control boards and a transformer. I have Proteus and can test various design ideas in simulation.
Even some basic advise like for a 2 way use this cross over for your tweeter and this for you full range. And for a 3 way do this. Or a way for me to figure out the tech specs I need.
I have a function generator, a scope. So was thinking what if I do a freq sweep and see where the speaker starts to work and stops to work. Could I use that to build the cross over.
Friends have donated a lot of their DIY speaker projects. So far the best is a 2 way with a peerless tweeter with a 8 inch full range boston acoustics. It sounds amazing. But zero Bass.
Im thinking if I build a 2 way it may help me get some bass out of it.
Or should I just add an 8 inch woofer. Sorry for rambling.
Here is my question. How do I create a cross over with zero info on the speakers.
The issue is if you want to get speakers with all the tech specs. They cost a lot. Im talking more than 3 times the price.
Im building my speakers using el-cheapo speakers. Which come with Zero tech specs. You go to a shop. You decide what size you want and what watts.
They test it for you. That's it. I still think a good cross over would help them sound better.
Im starting out in this as a hobby. I have no idea what I will like. What will work. What will not.
So Im not going to drop a lot of money into some drivers I may like or not like. Because I have no idea what size of woofer will satisfy my need for heavy bass.
What size of mid will match the woofer. I still need to see what size speakers work. Will an 8 inch woofer work for the kind of bass I like. Or do I need a 12 inch woofer. If I use a 12 inch woofer how large should my midrange speaker be.
Have been going thru speaker box designs on various sites seeing how they combine speakers.
All I want is nice clear music with good bass. My amp will put out about 60-70 watts RMS. They claim 200 watts per channel.
Im lost and need some advice.Have purchased 3 amps. and 3 preamp / tone control boards and a transformer. I have Proteus and can test various design ideas in simulation.
Even some basic advise like for a 2 way use this cross over for your tweeter and this for you full range. And for a 3 way do this. Or a way for me to figure out the tech specs I need.
I have a function generator, a scope. So was thinking what if I do a freq sweep and see where the speaker starts to work and stops to work. Could I use that to build the cross over.
Friends have donated a lot of their DIY speaker projects. So far the best is a 2 way with a peerless tweeter with a 8 inch full range boston acoustics. It sounds amazing. But zero Bass.
Im thinking if I build a 2 way it may help me get some bass out of it.
Or should I just add an 8 inch woofer. Sorry for rambling.
Yes, best to be quite specific on exactly what help you require.
The simplest speaker for which to design a crossover is a two-way, so I suggest you limit your initial endeavours to that configuration.
If you give as many details as you can about the exact tweeter and the exact woofer you would like to use, then perhaps help will be forthcoming regarding a suitable choice of enclosure and crossover.
P.S. I suggest you ask for this thread to be moved to the 'Multi-Way' section. Press the 'Report' button and ask a moderator to do so.
“El cheapo” speakers with zero specs usually produce zero real bass. And going bigger doesn’t always help. A good crossover may help the screechy midrange, but can’t do anything about a weak motor.
My main questions:
What is your time/energy worth?
Are you serious about this hobby or are you just trying to build some speakers you'll like listening to?
If you just want some speakers, pay the extra money to get known drivers that have been used in someone else's project and copy it.
To do most of the things you're asking about "right," you're going to need to be able to accurately measure impedance and frequency response, you'll need to model accurately (electrically can acoustically), and to do both of those takes quite a bit of understanding of the principles involved. It's a relatively steep hill to climb all at once if you aren't highly motivated.
If you are motivated, but on a budget, REW is typically used for frequency response measurement. To measure in normal environments, an impulse-based system is required (a typical scope and signal generator won't cut it unless you're outside/far away from reflective surfaces or your scope and generator can do gated measurements).
The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Dickason is worth reading. It's been around a lot of years for good reasons.
What is your time/energy worth?
Are you serious about this hobby or are you just trying to build some speakers you'll like listening to?
If you just want some speakers, pay the extra money to get known drivers that have been used in someone else's project and copy it.
To do most of the things you're asking about "right," you're going to need to be able to accurately measure impedance and frequency response, you'll need to model accurately (electrically can acoustically), and to do both of those takes quite a bit of understanding of the principles involved. It's a relatively steep hill to climb all at once if you aren't highly motivated.
If you are motivated, but on a budget, REW is typically used for frequency response measurement. To measure in normal environments, an impulse-based system is required (a typical scope and signal generator won't cut it unless you're outside/far away from reflective surfaces or your scope and generator can do gated measurements).
The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Dickason is worth reading. It's been around a lot of years for good reasons.
You have not mentioned what kind of speaker cabinet design that you intend to use, sealed box, ported, or other.
In any case the stiffness of the box will improve the bass. Do not use partical board or chip board but use 3/4"
plywood and put stiffiners (front to back,side to side struts on any surface that is over 2 feet)
In any case the stiffness of the box will improve the bass. Do not use partical board or chip board but use 3/4"
plywood and put stiffiners (front to back,side to side struts on any surface that is over 2 feet)
great!
I started just like you - some 35 years ago.
rediscovering this hobby (and diyaudio) I realized how much a computer with software, a microphone and a soundcard can help understanding what's really happening.
you can and will go deeper into technical details and this may lead to better understanding what drivers can satisfy your needs.
i think there are three ways to achieve this:
1) learn how speakers work and how to choose driver and enclosure
2) build a proven design
3) buy a speaker that does what you need.
Lucky for me I have some really good friends. So when I posted that Im trying to get some music in my workshop. A lot of gear was dropped off. Some working. Some not like the Akai Amp. Different attempts at DIY speakers. With different configurations and drivers.
One 3 way effort had really nice 8 inch woofers that had amazing bass but the mid speakers were shredded / shorted.
Another good setup was the 2 way. The 2 way is in a small box but the clarity just blows my mind.
I did open up each speaker to see what info I could find. on the back of the speaker. It just states brand names ohms and watts. No other info. No modell number nothing.
I would call this two way the best sounding speakers I have heard in a long time. The box has followed the golden ratio. The front and rear are a solid 40mm thick. But one nagging issue bass is low. I was told its a full range speaker and you cant expect any bass out of it esp without a cross over.
So how would I go about designing a cross over for this 2 way. And would it improve the bass. ?.
From my reading adding a 4 Mh inductor may help.
As to the idea about just buying some decent drivers lets compare prices. A nice driver is about 19.000 bucks or about 250$ for one.
The drivers Im looking at in the shops same size, same watts is 10$. The boston acoustic speakers in the 2 way were purchased for about 15$. The 8 inch woofer I really liked from the 3 way is about 12 $. I have heard the fancy speakers and to be honest the difference in quality is not worth the difference in price. Plus Im not in a position to blow a 1000$ on some drivers.
I plan to build a ported box for my speakers once I have the drivers in hand. Transmission line is what I think they are called. With a long baffle. And a port.
Other than this I have some sony 4 ways (ss-l90vh) and a bose book shelf series II but even these lack the bass I feel. The sound Im chasing is what we had in our home back in 1979 which was an Akai. (I can dig up the exact model number).
This started as a I just want some music in my workshop. And then my OCD kicked in.
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A crossover will not automatically improve bass.
Do you mean that the main driver is not a mid/bass unit, but is a full range unit?
I presume you have added a tweeter via a series capacitor to act as a high pass filter?
Adding an inductor in series with a full range speaker will prevent the driver from reproducing the high frequencies. This may give the impression of more fullness in the lower frequencies.
You can get decent drivers pretty inexpensively. Parts Express has speaker drivers that cover the price spectrum quite well. I don't know what your budget is, but look on this page and you'll see you can get 8" woofers with the specs for as little as $14 each.
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/hi-fi-woofers-subwoofers-midranges-tweeters
Bass is more dependent on the enclosure than on the crossover, for the most part. Win ISD is great program for box design, but you need a few specs for it to work.
Each driver has a lot of different physical characteristics that determine the crossover requirements. Just putting a crossover on a driver will "work" but it will be far from optimum. The proper crossover really determines the sound quality of the speaker.
You can definitely get good bass out of a full-range driver, so don't dismiss them. They don't need a crossover, but may need a filter. There are a lot of good designs available for free for full range drivers. Again, budget will determine what driver, but budget doesn't necessarily determine sound quality. You can go with a full range driver and a subwoofer, which is typically easier to design that a two-way with a proper crossover.
How much bass are you looking for? Wall shaking? Movie theater bass? Musical bass?
If one of your friends has a Woofer Tester, you can get a good start on a speaker box.
Mike
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/hi-fi-woofers-subwoofers-midranges-tweeters
Bass is more dependent on the enclosure than on the crossover, for the most part. Win ISD is great program for box design, but you need a few specs for it to work.
Each driver has a lot of different physical characteristics that determine the crossover requirements. Just putting a crossover on a driver will "work" but it will be far from optimum. The proper crossover really determines the sound quality of the speaker.
You can definitely get good bass out of a full-range driver, so don't dismiss them. They don't need a crossover, but may need a filter. There are a lot of good designs available for free for full range drivers. Again, budget will determine what driver, but budget doesn't necessarily determine sound quality. You can go with a full range driver and a subwoofer, which is typically easier to design that a two-way with a proper crossover.
How much bass are you looking for? Wall shaking? Movie theater bass? Musical bass?
If one of your friends has a Woofer Tester, you can get a good start on a speaker box.
Mike
P.S. 4 mH is a rather large value of inductance.
To put the figure into perspective, the simplest form of two-way crossover for 8 ohm drivers at 3,000 Hz would comprise of a 4.7 uF NP capacitor in series with the tweeter and a 0.6 mH inductor in series with the full range or mid/bass driver.
To put the figure into perspective, the simplest form of two-way crossover for 8 ohm drivers at 3,000 Hz would comprise of a 4.7 uF NP capacitor in series with the tweeter and a 0.6 mH inductor in series with the full range or mid/bass driver.
I usually go with testing by ear, to see how "natural" the result sounds, and by voicing the system to suit the enclosure.
In some cases, rheostats are needed to "fine tune" the upper end to suit the room.
I wouldn't be without an L pad or even a variable resistor - I like a good tweak! 😊
"Old School" - you and I! 😎
Hey Galu..... it's only common sense to provide something that caters to personal preferences, right?
That why for decades manufacturers included Bass and Treble controls too.
That's why all my amplifiers have them.
And, whisper it, a few even have loudness controls! 😱
And, whisper it, a few even have loudness controls! 😱
Oh good gosh!
Say it ain't so!
That horrible sacrilegious LOUDness control!
Tampering with the music is a terrible thing ya know?
Turn in your Audiophile Membership Card right now mister!
LOL!!!!
The problem with loudness controls is they are almost never calibrated right. You have a source thats too hot (like FM) and you get 15 dB of bass boost at 10 o’clock position on the volume control and the amp is clipping. Put it on CD and it may fare better - depending on the recording. There can be 20 dB differences in the base level. To make one worth a damn you need a gain trim with an LED readout to see where the peak levels are and keep them optimum - ahead of the volume control.
Yamaha addressed that with their variable loudness control, as did a few others.
But.... it's simple enough to modify in just about any amp.
Usually just jumping the capacitor on the loudness tap with an appropriate resistor.
But.... it's simple enough to modify in just about any amp.
Usually just jumping the capacitor on the loudness tap with an appropriate resistor.