I am researching drivers and I notice that SB woofers cost considerably more than a Peerless Tymphany woofer. Are the SB generally better drivers? I know the Sb are not made in Denmark so I would think their prices would be in line with Peerless. (At least they are cheaper than Scan Speak Lol)
Prices vary widely by your geography, as well as country of manufacture/origin. Different countries have free trade/tariffs with others, VAT, etc. In general, manufacture in cheaper locales obviously makes for cheaper speakers. But it's not safe to assume that what's cheaper in the US is cheaper in Canada, Europe, or Asia, and vice versa.
IS SB generally better than Peerless? Not necessarily. SB has a polymer frame line that is closer to lower-cost peerless, and more expensive lines that are closer to Peerless NE lines. There are also standouts & duds in almost every product line, so you really need to look part by part. The hificompass driver comparator tool is a good place to start.
IS SB generally better than Peerless? Not necessarily. SB has a polymer frame line that is closer to lower-cost peerless, and more expensive lines that are closer to Peerless NE lines. There are also standouts & duds in almost every product line, so you really need to look part by part. The hificompass driver comparator tool is a good place to start.
Also, high production volumes take costs down. Peerless/vifa/tymphany have been manufacturing drivers for oem applications for long time, probably much better oiled machine in that sense and it shows in the price.
Price does not correlate with quality all the time, all cheap drivers are not bad and all expensive drivers are not good. In the end driver brand/model is not very important as long as it fits your speaker design/concept perfectly and when it does there is no better driver no matter the price. I would buy couple of best candidates, then evaluate in the actual speaker which one suits better.
Price does not correlate with quality all the time, all cheap drivers are not bad and all expensive drivers are not good. In the end driver brand/model is not very important as long as it fits your speaker design/concept perfectly and when it does there is no better driver no matter the price. I would buy couple of best candidates, then evaluate in the actual speaker which one suits better.
There seem to be growing numbers of Peerless drivers advertised with 300 to 1000 minimum order quantities at places like Parts Express making them look cheap. Many drivers are out of stock from the usual sources (but covid...). My guess, and it is only a guess, is that they are in the process of pretty much giving up on the DIY market as other manufacturers have done in the past. I could be wrong and I hope I am.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products...wKYA0IA9lANogAMIAugL7EC08yIakWeRpF4AbLCQN69IA
Even Digikey now has a selection of cheap Peerless by Tymphany drivers.
Even Digikey now has a selection of cheap Peerless by Tymphany drivers.
There is nothing cheap about having to buy 100 or 500 "cheap" NE woofers when you only want 2!
Brother andersonix
in 2018 Digikey had the almost thr whole Tymphany lineup, Available in singles including STW, SDF and other new drivers.
It’s now shrivelled up to a few dozen. Have a close look some now labelled as obsolete. That is Digikeys code for they will get no more after the end Of stock. Start finding replacements for your production.
My own distributor in Australia has given hints that the way Tymphany are moving, stocks will dry up. Buy now but many stock up
They are going the way of the dodo for DIYErs
cost of drivers of any product is complex.
For sure SP acoustics enjoy a healthy margin on their “affordable” standard line drivers.
in 2018 Digikey had the almost thr whole Tymphany lineup, Available in singles including STW, SDF and other new drivers.
It’s now shrivelled up to a few dozen. Have a close look some now labelled as obsolete. That is Digikeys code for they will get no more after the end Of stock. Start finding replacements for your production.
My own distributor in Australia has given hints that the way Tymphany are moving, stocks will dry up. Buy now but many stock up
They are going the way of the dodo for DIYErs
cost of drivers of any product is complex.
For sure SP acoustics enjoy a healthy margin on their “affordable” standard line drivers.
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Perhaps I am pressing the wrong keys but I get a minimum of 500 for the NE225-08 and a minimum of 100 for the NE265W-08 with much of the rest obsolete. The only NE driver I could see with an order of quantity of 1 was a 4" mid but I would need to buy lots of those to use for a woofer!
I've found the SB PFC (polymer frame) 6" woofer to be excellent for the $. I've also used the Peerless 830657, which is about A$5 cheaper than the SB. The Peerless is much easier to mount but the SB has the edge sound-wise, slightly 'cleaner' perhaps. The Peerless is made in China; the SB in Indonesia.
Cost does not always indicate quality: a Rolls Royce can cost around twenty times more than a Camry, but guess which one is more reliable?
Geoff
Cost does not always indicate quality: a Rolls Royce can cost around twenty times more than a Camry, but guess which one is more reliable?
Geoff
I am very surprised, given the huge distance and different Customs regions, but look what I was offered:
Also at Parts Express:
At a guess this is stock that has stood on shelves for a while. The question is how many of those selling to DIYers are going to restock when the shelves are empty. For the NE range my guess is not many and possibly none given how much of the range has already been dropped by Tymphany. Although a nice driver it is relatively expensive and possibly hasn't been adopted by the industry in the levels hoped. At the moment SB Acoustics looks a much more reliable source of DIY drivers.
This is only tangentially related, but I had an idea a few years back for how to make money in DIY:
Due to inflation, the price of everything is rising. It's not just gas and houses, it's everything.
One can profit from this by purchasing a bunch of assets. We see lots of companies buying up housing. But if you had the space, it could be anything that doesn't spoil: sheets of plywood, gold coins, whatever.
Loudspeaker drivers would be an interesting way to invest.
Basically I've noticed that most loudspeaker retailers seem to have a fixed price on their drivers. I assume that they purchase a few hundred drivers, stick them in some warehouse, and then charge a fixed markup on them.
But in a world of inflation, that's kinda dumb isn't it?
To me, it seems like there might be an investment opportunity if you:
1) Had about 1000 drivers manufactured that were of good quality
2) sold them online
3) and adjusted their price upwards year after year
For instance, you might spend $60 to make each driver, and in year one you charge $100 for it, then increase that by 8% every year. By year five you'd be selling the drivers for $147 and your margin on each driver would have increase from $40 each to $87 each.
Here's a hypothetical example of what I am trying to explain:
A few years back, I was talking to Danny Ritchie about buying a bunch of drivers. It was for a DIY project I wanted to publish here. I wanted to check and see if he had sufficient stock, because I didn't want one of those situations we see so often in DIY, where someone publishes a project and then supply of the drivers dries up. Danny said he had hundreds of the drivers in stock. I have no idea how he runs his business, but I assume he manufactures his drivers in large quantities.
In 2012, Danny sold his M-130 woofer for $27. https://web.archive.org/web/20111228221928/http://gr-research.com/drivers.aspx
Today it sells for $29: https://gr-research.com/product/m130-woofer/
In the context of inflation, his current price is ridiculously low. His price has gone up a whopping 0.7% per year for the last ten years.
Even if he factored in a modest amount of inflation (4%) the M-130 would retail for $40 today. At 8% inflation, it would retail for $60 today.
Folks who follow my DIY projects may have noticed that I use the MCM 55-1870 a lot. One of the reasons that I do this, is that the MCM's pricing is similar to Danny's pricing; basically they haven't done anything to compensate for inflation. Danny's prices went up 0.7% a year; MCM's prices went up about the same. I assume it's likely a similar story, MCM probably had thousands of the drivers manufactured and we're paying 2002 prices for a driver in 2022.
This is the MCM 55-1870. Retail price is $12.80. You can get it cheaper in bulk.
This is the Dayton DA-115. Retail price is $25.
The two drivers are very very similar... but Parts Express has been increasing the cost of their drivers to reflect inflation. The DA-115 sold for $15 in 2007.
I know this post is extremely wonky, but the basic message here is that:
1) if you're interested in selling DIY stuff, you might think about buying a whole bunch and raising the price every year
2) if you want to get some drivers for awesome prices, take a look around for drivers manufactured in 2005, 2000, even 1990. You can find retailers with drivers sitting on a shelf who've never adjusted their price for inflation.
This is the warehouse for Apex JR
Here's a tweeter he sells for $7.50 each. Probably manufactured twenty years ago, and priced accordingly.
I bought a bunch of coaxes from Apex Jr and they were just beautiful. They'd been manufactured for some loudspeaker company that went out of business and I think Apex Jr bought up the entire lot. They looked comparable to something you'd get from Scan Speak for $200 each, easily. They were manufactured by Vifa way back in the day, when Vifa built drivers in Denmark. Just impeccable engineering and manufacturing.
Apex Jr was selling them for about $15-$20 IIRC.
Due to inflation, the price of everything is rising. It's not just gas and houses, it's everything.
One can profit from this by purchasing a bunch of assets. We see lots of companies buying up housing. But if you had the space, it could be anything that doesn't spoil: sheets of plywood, gold coins, whatever.
Loudspeaker drivers would be an interesting way to invest.
Basically I've noticed that most loudspeaker retailers seem to have a fixed price on their drivers. I assume that they purchase a few hundred drivers, stick them in some warehouse, and then charge a fixed markup on them.
But in a world of inflation, that's kinda dumb isn't it?
To me, it seems like there might be an investment opportunity if you:
1) Had about 1000 drivers manufactured that were of good quality
2) sold them online
3) and adjusted their price upwards year after year
For instance, you might spend $60 to make each driver, and in year one you charge $100 for it, then increase that by 8% every year. By year five you'd be selling the drivers for $147 and your margin on each driver would have increase from $40 each to $87 each.
Here's a hypothetical example of what I am trying to explain:
A few years back, I was talking to Danny Ritchie about buying a bunch of drivers. It was for a DIY project I wanted to publish here. I wanted to check and see if he had sufficient stock, because I didn't want one of those situations we see so often in DIY, where someone publishes a project and then supply of the drivers dries up. Danny said he had hundreds of the drivers in stock. I have no idea how he runs his business, but I assume he manufactures his drivers in large quantities.
In 2012, Danny sold his M-130 woofer for $27. https://web.archive.org/web/20111228221928/http://gr-research.com/drivers.aspx
Today it sells for $29: https://gr-research.com/product/m130-woofer/
In the context of inflation, his current price is ridiculously low. His price has gone up a whopping 0.7% per year for the last ten years.
Even if he factored in a modest amount of inflation (4%) the M-130 would retail for $40 today. At 8% inflation, it would retail for $60 today.
Folks who follow my DIY projects may have noticed that I use the MCM 55-1870 a lot. One of the reasons that I do this, is that the MCM's pricing is similar to Danny's pricing; basically they haven't done anything to compensate for inflation. Danny's prices went up 0.7% a year; MCM's prices went up about the same. I assume it's likely a similar story, MCM probably had thousands of the drivers manufactured and we're paying 2002 prices for a driver in 2022.
This is the MCM 55-1870. Retail price is $12.80. You can get it cheaper in bulk.
This is the Dayton DA-115. Retail price is $25.
The two drivers are very very similar... but Parts Express has been increasing the cost of their drivers to reflect inflation. The DA-115 sold for $15 in 2007.
I know this post is extremely wonky, but the basic message here is that:
1) if you're interested in selling DIY stuff, you might think about buying a whole bunch and raising the price every year
2) if you want to get some drivers for awesome prices, take a look around for drivers manufactured in 2005, 2000, even 1990. You can find retailers with drivers sitting on a shelf who've never adjusted their price for inflation.
This is the warehouse for Apex JR
Here's a tweeter he sells for $7.50 each. Probably manufactured twenty years ago, and priced accordingly.
I bought a bunch of coaxes from Apex Jr and they were just beautiful. They'd been manufactured for some loudspeaker company that went out of business and I think Apex Jr bought up the entire lot. They looked comparable to something you'd get from Scan Speak for $200 each, easily. They were manufactured by Vifa way back in the day, when Vifa built drivers in Denmark. Just impeccable engineering and manufacturing.
Apex Jr was selling them for about $15-$20 IIRC.
Andy, it seems to me that some of the drivers listed are not stock, they certainly are shown with high/odd MOQ's but stock parts are available as singles it says, maybe these are also current production items.
Attachments
That's a too simple way to see it. There are some critical points:
First, if you want to start from scratch, you need to be a reputable seller, and it is not easy to have your drivers sold based on nothing. But let we forget this starting problem, and assume you cal sell them. The price you have to ask is not based simply on the equation production price + margin, but first you have to understand what price is really viable in the context of the market, and what margin you will have if priced that way. Let we assume that you can sell the drivers with a margin. Only then you can start thinking about inflation for the subsequent years. The point here is that if you adjust the price for inflation but the rest of the market doesn't, you will be put out of the market and won't sell the drivers anymore.
Besides all this, another point is that you can make "real" money adjusting the price year after year only if you raise the price more than the inflation. If you don't, your real net gain is the same as if you sold all the drivers the first year without adjusting the price. Moral of the story: you can make real money with inflation only if you stock items that will gain value more than the inflation. I don't think that drivers or electronics items in general are such items.
Ralf
What are the SB and Peerless drivers you are comparing? There is no single line of drivers for both SB and Peerless, quality and value can be wildly different between a single brand.
Ralf
As noted before, the NE line is not produced anymore, so what you can buy now is only what is in the distributors/sellers warehouses. I suspect that the NE315 can be heavily discounted now, so grab them if you find a substantial lower price than the SB. The SB woofer is a top driver.
Ralf
Ralf