There are so many designs out there, I need some help picking a bread and butter design to build. Someone recommended the Hinson Neman horn, wich looks pretty awesome, but looking for something with a little more manageable size wise. is the 1850 cab the standard? or is there a more efficent horn design out there?
-Single folded horn ( not W )
-a design that can be reproduced without much copyright infringement
-fairly flat from 40Hz-100Hz
-doesnt require a specialized or super expensive driver
-efficient cabinet design (not overly large)
-Single folded horn ( not W )
-a design that can be reproduced without much copyright infringement
-fairly flat from 40Hz-100Hz
-doesnt require a specialized or super expensive driver
-efficient cabinet design (not overly large)
Rog Mogale's 1850 horn is as efficient as they come, but not below 54Hz.
"Fairly flat" from 40Hz-100Hz with similar efficiency will be "overly large" by comparison, 45" x 45" x 22.5".
If you want to get more low output from a box the size of the 1850, it will require drivers with more excursion (more expensive..) in a tapped horn.
"Fairly flat" from 40Hz-100Hz with similar efficiency will be "overly large" by comparison, 45" x 45" x 22.5".
If you want to get more low output from a box the size of the 1850, it will require drivers with more excursion (more expensive..) in a tapped horn.
third thread with wanting the same work around to Hoffman's Iron Law, physics is a b.... ain't it....
This thread is not the same.
Im clear on what I’m looking for now, but don’t know what designs are out there that get close to meeting what I’m looking for.
There has got to be a cab design that finds the sweet spot in Hoffmann law, and is kind of the standard workhorse.
I know there will be some compromises in the end tho..
Im clear on what I’m looking for now, but don’t know what designs are out there that get close to meeting what I’m looking for.
There has got to be a cab design that finds the sweet spot in Hoffmann law, and is kind of the standard workhorse.
I know there will be some compromises in the end tho..
I would also suggest tapped horns for this. The only other that i know that is good is a labhorn, that need 2 drivers and is fairly big (see attachment).
But something like the TH-18 from XOC1 should do similar good in a smaller package: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/th-18-flat-to-35hz-xoc1s-design.190635/
But something like the TH-18 from XOC1 should do similar good in a smaller package: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/th-18-flat-to-35hz-xoc1s-design.190635/
My first thought on any of the tapped horns is phase problems, but you guys would know better then me if thats really happening. Is the tapped horn concept all about a 1/4 wave length delay from the horn chamber, and by the time it reaches the inverted phase of the tap? so no phase problems?
Also my intuition is saying that there is something about the sound of a traditional sealed folded horn. like it lets the speaker kind of bounce back between positive and negative cycles, and makes kind of a tighter bass sound from the vacuum... if that makes sense
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Your intuition is correct, a FLH will generally have a bit better phase response and "tighter sound" in the upper range than a TH.
That said, crossing at 100Hz there is not a great deal of difference in "punch" between a well designed and built 40Hz TH and FLH.
The Hinson Neman Dual 18 Horn Subwoofer could be split in two to be more manageable size wise.
That said, crossing at 100Hz there is not a great deal of difference in "punch" between a well designed and built 40Hz TH and FLH.
The Hinson Neman Dual 18 Horn Subwoofer could be split in two to be more manageable size wise.
Thanks guys for all of your suggestions.. they really are helping me narrow it down.
Out of curiosity, has anyone actually built and tested a "half" hison neeman?
Out of curiosity, has anyone actually built and tested a "half" hison neeman?
On another thread you described what you were looking for, which sounds different to 'tight' as I understand it. All these words are easy to misinterpret and I try to avoid them unless that is the only way I can describe something. I feel you may be left trying out different approaches looking for what you really want. Often, in any case, you'll be stuck wading through a whole different set of issues wondering what is happening. So do try something 🙂
Phase issues, what are they? The fact that you have sound meeting up with itself at a different part of the cycle can also be a good thing.
Phase issues, what are they? The fact that you have sound meeting up with itself at a different part of the cycle can also be a good thing.
how we describe sonic phenomenon with words always turns into mud....but as someone who has lived through the era of horns being categorized as long, medium and short "throw", i have come to see a congruence to the new age term of "directivity index".
how a horn behaves on axis in the far field is governed by near field off axis.
how a horn behaves on axis in the far field is governed by near field off axis.
A FLH PA setup will be big - the cabinets will be big & there will be multiples of them.
Tapped horns will be smaller & quieter But bigger and louder than reflex equivalents.
Reflex cabinets will be even more smaller & quieter. Often these days with a modern driver & a capable amplifier that can deliver transients in the killowatts the reflex is a sensible compact option.
So there are the choices - there are no miracle speakers that break the rules - But there are speakers that perform better under real world conditions - Personally I find tapped horns provide a dynamic sound that leaves a reflex cabinet sounding compressed & lacking.
I loved having FLH horns in a PA system but the size requirements are a problem for most.
Tapped horns will be smaller & quieter But bigger and louder than reflex equivalents.
Reflex cabinets will be even more smaller & quieter. Often these days with a modern driver & a capable amplifier that can deliver transients in the killowatts the reflex is a sensible compact option.
So there are the choices - there are no miracle speakers that break the rules - But there are speakers that perform better under real world conditions - Personally I find tapped horns provide a dynamic sound that leaves a reflex cabinet sounding compressed & lacking.
I loved having FLH horns in a PA system but the size requirements are a problem for most.
and directivity at low frequencies requires an array of subs combined with phase over frequency filters to achieve the "power alley grunt" that the OP is looking to replicate.
and i'm not certain that tapped horns are quieter than FLH's....might be just me and my general lack of knowledge but i always thought that it was a bandwidth versus max spl thing, as in because tapped horns where not capable of the same bandwidth as an FLH they where louder.
and i'm not certain that tapped horns are quieter than FLH's....might be just me and my general lack of knowledge but i always thought that it was a bandwidth versus max spl thing, as in because tapped horns where not capable of the same bandwidth as an FLH they where louder.
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You suggest clean? My earlier thoughts were 'resonant'. Goes to show 😉
Which near field?
je pense que on ne se comprend pas....
was that not concise enough english...the "off axis" near field just as stated and subsequently quoted by yourself.
was that not concise enough english...the "off axis" near field just as stated and subsequently quoted by yourself.
Freddi,thanks for running that 1850 15” sim much appreciated.
..and thanks to all, for the feedback and suggestions.
I’m probably going to have to build a pair TH and FLH and then just listen.
im hearing everyone that I’m not going to be able to get the low end needed on the FLH without larger cab size.
I think I’m clear on TH’s that are good working designs now, but wondering what you guys would pick for a FLH design as your go to?
(based on the specs on my OP, but removing the smaller cab size requirement)
..and thanks to all, for the feedback and suggestions.
I’m probably going to have to build a pair TH and FLH and then just listen.
im hearing everyone that I’m not going to be able to get the low end needed on the FLH without larger cab size.
I think I’m clear on TH’s that are good working designs now, but wondering what you guys would pick for a FLH design as your go to?
(based on the specs on my OP, but removing the smaller cab size requirement)
since shear physical size pretty much precludes their use in a portable system there really isn't any examples of good FLH designs out there, but others may weigh in....folded bass horns well that's another story...
picture trying to transport something like this...
in my touring days i used to try and cram all the stuff i could into the dead space of bass horns, monitors, mic kits, par lamps, small racks whatever would fit to save truck space.
picture trying to transport something like this...
in my touring days i used to try and cram all the stuff i could into the dead space of bass horns, monitors, mic kits, par lamps, small racks whatever would fit to save truck space.