I beg your pardon, but these are different questions and different conclusions.
You asked for the identification of the different "cables", but which way should a listener know what the sound of a "potato cable" (or the others) is or should be? Even in the case of quite audible differences the identification game would be near random.
The differences in your files seemed to be quite small, but obviously some of the listeners nevertheless thought they were able to detect some, while others thought they sounded all the same.
But you can't conclude from the random identifications that no listener could hear a difference.
I too did not understand his point. Funny that he had to make fun of my use of 10e6 instead of 1,000,000. Clearly he does not work in my environ where it is a commonly used abbreviation, like 10e6 joules, or 10e6 eV.
As to use of 7 nines wire, the advantage goes away when the wire is bent, it work hardens and kills the single crystal structure. In my work, it wipes the conductivity gain in liquid helium.
John
Oh wow! That's no good. Thanks for the ithat information, it puts things in perspective.
That isn't the point. From the random indications one can easily conclude that for all but 2 people the guesses where no better than chance. Perhaps they heard a difference, maybe they only thought they did. But the results were random for 11 out of 13 people between the original file, copper wire and various bad conductors. That is a strong indication that the differences were very difficult, if not impossible to hear. Note that of the two people who had good results, one of them thought the signal thru banana and potato was the original.
Out of 13 people who were curious enough to take the test, one person correctly identified copper and original file. He did not comment on the others.
Jim,
You seem to be of the opinion that I was looking down at others because I found it interesting to see people who do not use multi nines copper or aluminum discussing it. You would be incorrect.
While I appreciate you explaining to me how "physics describes the world around us", I already have a teeny tiny smidgen of understanding in that regard.
Oh, a funny thing about price. One of the bean counters in the division I work in found that there was an extremely linear relationship between the weight of a superconducting magnet made using niobium titanium superconductor and the price. So much so, that he needed only to ask the design engineers how much the magnet weighs to simply calculate the cost. No need to have all the vendors quote..
Pano,
One of my customers in Geneva wanted to use extreme nines copper for a coil destined for 4.5 Kelvin use because the cross section of copper is lower than that of niobium or titanium. (cross section is a measure of how easy the atom can stop particles or radiation...Beryllium for example has a very low cross section, so is used for windows allowing x-rays to pass while holding a high vacuum like 10e-7 torr).
I explained to the customer that to make his solenoid, the simple act of bending the conductor around the tube will work harden the copper and the 4 orders of magnitude conductivity increase he needs would go away. He was better off with a cable made of 6 copper wires around 1 niobium titanium wire, all .004 inches diameter. Oh, I also explained to him that if I work hardened the wire, there was no method I am aware of to measure the failure at room temperature.
Jn
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It is trivial to make a speaker wire that is superconducting at room temperature.
The problem is, the temperature of the room has to be very, very, very cold..😳
jn
An argument with my wife only gets the room down to around 180K but pressure rises to at least 210GPa. Would that get us somewhere?
Let's go back to the original post and question. The OP is asking about special single crystal wire to avoid any crystal boundaries in the copper wire.
But you say:
But you say:
Does this mean that the special structure of a single copper crystal wire (if it exists) would be damaged and broken up simply by bending it?
Yes...
Like I have been saying, along with so many others, this is a foolish thing to worry about.
Rolls Royce had developed a process for single crystal turbine blades, the final machined blade was zone refined, that resulted in a single crystal.
Zone refining involves heating one end of the blade to at least transition point, above 500 C, then moving the heat source gently till the other end. Controlled cooling after that.
Try doing that with a speaker cable after it is installed in your room.
Likely cause a fire.
Like I have been saying, along with so many others, this is a foolish thing to worry about.
Rolls Royce had developed a process for single crystal turbine blades, the final machined blade was zone refined, that resulted in a single crystal.
Zone refining involves heating one end of the blade to at least transition point, above 500 C, then moving the heat source gently till the other end. Controlled cooling after that.
Try doing that with a speaker cable after it is installed in your room.
Likely cause a fire.
Zone refining is also used to purify silicon billets before the wafers are cut from them and processed, the process results in impurities collecting at one end, which is discarded, and the pure part is sent on for processing.
If I remember correctly, a controlled inert gas atmosphere was needed to prevent oxidation.
Zone refining also has other uses apart from silicon purification.
Rolls Royce had modified this process to make single crystal turbine blades by making the conditions prevail for crystal growth.
If curious, look it up, interesting technology, but not really audio related.
So Monster Cable, and other bees in the bonnet are just that. a sign of a wavering mind.
Like I said, find something else to obsess about.
If I remember correctly, a controlled inert gas atmosphere was needed to prevent oxidation.
Zone refining also has other uses apart from silicon purification.
Rolls Royce had modified this process to make single crystal turbine blades by making the conditions prevail for crystal growth.
If curious, look it up, interesting technology, but not really audio related.
So Monster Cable, and other bees in the bonnet are just that. a sign of a wavering mind.
Like I said, find something else to obsess about.
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Interesting...Resistivity varies with temperature and heat treatment.
Does not say much about the OPs need for single crystal wire.
Does not say much about the OPs need for single crystal wire.
People. It's always about people, which unfortunately isn't unique.
It sounds like the hysteria at ASR about finding -80 dbfs noise at 50 kHz in DSD recordings. The comment thread is currently over 750 moral outrage posts.
Pano, I know that there is always a twist in analogies, but try to imagine that you would send out samples of four single malts together with a list of distilleries and ask the testers for correct identification although they've never tasted these before. If the answers were like random guessing would you conclude that the taste of these four single malts is the same?
Yes. Now imagine the post processing involved to make a stranded insulated wire. After stranding twist, the wire could be re-annealed, but once insulated, nothing can be done to heat treat work hardening out.
And forget about a coax braid.
The effect of eliminating all grain boundaries on resistance at room temperature is significantly smaller than the effect cooling the wire 1 degree C would have.
Great. Now we'll get threads on "Deep Air Conditioning" to lower the resistance of speaker cables.
You could cut resistance in half by doubling up on 12 gauge zip cord, but that stuff doesn't cost enough to "carry the sound correctly," even at twice the cost.
You could cut resistance in half by doubling up on 12 gauge zip cord, but that stuff doesn't cost enough to "carry the sound correctly," even at twice the cost.
Ah... that puts things in perspective.
Of course I don't think that moist fans of single crystal wire are too worried about resistance, it's the diode effects or other artifacts that the boundaries might have.
But that's an incomplete analogy. Of course I would not expect tasters to identify whiskeys that had never tested. My test included a reference, call it the premium single malt - all other samples had been mixed with bourbon or vodka. Can the tasters tell the difference? Can they identify the straight single malt? In my test only one person nailed it . Of course I don't think the whiskey test would result in confusion. But I haven't tried it. 🙂
can´t you?
I thought English was your Mother Tongue, in that case you should understand it very well.
Here, let me split it in easier to understand blocks.
If you still find any too hard, I might try to dumb it down even further, you just tell me.
LITERALLY means that: Physics VERY WELL describes the World around us.
Lets us predict the Future with precision, design with precision, TEST with precision, etc.
If you disagree with Physics, I can only feel sad about you and your Technical endeavours, in fact suggest you keep well away from that area, and stick to subjective, emotional,"opinion" based stuff instead.
Best case stick to capacitor and cable threads.
I am talking zeroes or nines, and stating that using many gives a false sensation of precision, in this case because calculated or imagined differences are fully inaudible/undetectable, so irrelevant.
Here, re-read what I wrote :
Hint: google "noise floor" and "hearing perception", it will definitely help.
Same here.
Open to rebuttal, do you have any example to the contrary?
Get ready for the Nobel Prize if so.
This is a sad but true in many Forums, including DIYA
VERY often people who have no clue about something and who would better keep their mouths shut, HAVE a knee jerk reaction, HAVE to write "something", even if wrong, unproven , unrelated or plain silly.
Still laughing at that one 😉
10e6 applied to describing 1 Million dollars goes beyond pompous and silly.
Maybe the expected reaction was me going back in awe and saying in awe: "WOW" " SCIENTIFIC notation!"
Sorry, I found it ridiculous, not awe inspiring.
Can´t dumb down or over-explain everything, I leave this one unsolved as a home task.
Any simpler?
Guess in that case some Grammar classes would be in order, since basic meaning of words seems to be beyond comprehension.
Oh well.