After searching for years and building headphone amps and dac, I think I probably found one of the best headphone setup ever, at least for me. The Dac/Headphone amp is the mighty RME ADI-2 Pro AD-DA Converter, wow what a machine, and way impossible to reproduce for us, Diyer, sorry. Just the software/driver are the real thing...
With my HiFiMan HE400i Headphone this setup is probably the best I ever tried/heard. The RME is really in incredible machine...
Just listening to the latest D'Virgilio, Morse & Jennings - Troika album, with the first track "Everything I Am", it is lovely.
Just to let you know...
With my HiFiMan HE400i Headphone this setup is probably the best I ever tried/heard. The RME is really in incredible machine...
Just listening to the latest D'Virgilio, Morse & Jennings - Troika album, with the first track "Everything I Am", it is lovely.
Just to let you know...
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I have to disagree on the headphone front. Having lived with the He400 for a bit; it is easily improved on; before we even get into that headband 😀 The RME is great and i'm sure your happiness with the driver software is justified (totalmix has been one of RMEs biggest assets for decades; rock solid), but I disagree that we cant match it DIY.
The RMI is very tempting. Considering it is a very good measuring unit with similar positive comments for the subjective reviewers as well as the multi-function of a head amp, parametric EQ, additional B&T, pre out, volume, and remote, it is quite a good deal. One review, take it with a grain of salt, suggested the eq is cleaner than APO, though I would need that proved or at least explained. There is much about digital filtering I only half understand where I do pretty much know the problems in analog.
Always careful of reviews as I can find reviews of absolute junk with rave after rave. I have been able to glean some trends on some products from a couple reviewers that are a general hint but they run in the same percentages as DAC distortion: .0001% 🙂
It took me 5 DACs to find one that did not cause a "glare" around 3K in my system so even though the RMI would simplify my stereo, I am hesitant to give up my Atom +. I also am toying with the idea of a Minidsp Flex and bi-amp which would change everything, but again, my poor success with DACs makes me timid. So I am also looking at a Lokius. ( Lokius, Bifrost , Maginus, and Sega S run about the same price as the RMI. Different approach. )
RMI does have a rep for being solid. Sure can't say that about SMSL or Topping. Only good thing I can say about them is the Amazon return policy!. The other two DACs that intrigue me are the Bifrost and Denafrits. The Cords are also interesting, but more that I would be willing to pay.
Truth be told other than the glare issue, the root of it is actually tweeter breakup, I am not sure through speakers I could hear any differences in any of them. For that matter, my old SMSL SAD-01 with an early Wolfson sounds fine through speakers on my desktop. Through headphones it is clearly a 10 year old entry level.
Could it be matched DIY? I doubt it. Head amp? yea. Preamp buffer? sure. Maybe the USB input and clocking. DAC and DSP? I doubt it. Play nice with Windows? That may be a challenge as so many comercial products can't achieve it and I am not talking low end!
FWIW, I hate headphones and only use my old Yamaha's when I don't want to disturb my wife in the mornings. I tried some of the new Sennheiser's and sent them back. Clean, but not musical. Dumped my Grado's for the same reason. I can't tell you if any of those Y-tube reviewers can actually hear all the attributes they claim, or are just making up video's. I only know what I hear. Swapping back to soft dome Seas tweeters and the JDS DAC solved my problems. ( I use an Asgard for a preamp and my own MOSFET amp which is a modified DH120) No glare. Cymbals right, soprano's right. Trumpets right. Oh yea, I had a Parasound classic 2400 II in there for a while and it made everything worse. Only bad sound now is all of the Billy Joel records. The mastering is horrible. Cymbals really terrible, midrange pushed up worse than old JBL's.
Always careful of reviews as I can find reviews of absolute junk with rave after rave. I have been able to glean some trends on some products from a couple reviewers that are a general hint but they run in the same percentages as DAC distortion: .0001% 🙂
It took me 5 DACs to find one that did not cause a "glare" around 3K in my system so even though the RMI would simplify my stereo, I am hesitant to give up my Atom +. I also am toying with the idea of a Minidsp Flex and bi-amp which would change everything, but again, my poor success with DACs makes me timid. So I am also looking at a Lokius. ( Lokius, Bifrost , Maginus, and Sega S run about the same price as the RMI. Different approach. )
RMI does have a rep for being solid. Sure can't say that about SMSL or Topping. Only good thing I can say about them is the Amazon return policy!. The other two DACs that intrigue me are the Bifrost and Denafrits. The Cords are also interesting, but more that I would be willing to pay.
Truth be told other than the glare issue, the root of it is actually tweeter breakup, I am not sure through speakers I could hear any differences in any of them. For that matter, my old SMSL SAD-01 with an early Wolfson sounds fine through speakers on my desktop. Through headphones it is clearly a 10 year old entry level.
Could it be matched DIY? I doubt it. Head amp? yea. Preamp buffer? sure. Maybe the USB input and clocking. DAC and DSP? I doubt it. Play nice with Windows? That may be a challenge as so many comercial products can't achieve it and I am not talking low end!
FWIW, I hate headphones and only use my old Yamaha's when I don't want to disturb my wife in the mornings. I tried some of the new Sennheiser's and sent them back. Clean, but not musical. Dumped my Grado's for the same reason. I can't tell you if any of those Y-tube reviewers can actually hear all the attributes they claim, or are just making up video's. I only know what I hear. Swapping back to soft dome Seas tweeters and the JDS DAC solved my problems. ( I use an Asgard for a preamp and my own MOSFET amp which is a modified DH120) No glare. Cymbals right, soprano's right. Trumpets right. Oh yea, I had a Parasound classic 2400 II in there for a while and it made everything worse. Only bad sound now is all of the Billy Joel records. The mastering is horrible. Cymbals really terrible, midrange pushed up worse than old JBL's.
@tvrgeek, I am also looking at a miniDSP FLEX digital feeding the RME AD-2 Pro. Realize that the RME has two complete stereo DACs so could do the digital xover in the FLEX then feeding the RME with 2 two stereo digital streams outputting two stereo analog channels feeding two stereo amps.
Compact and extremely clean.
Jan
Compact and extremely clean.
Jan
Sure about 4 discrete out channels? The marking on the box say "Out 1/2" - I'd say that is parelled 5,3mm and a XLR instead of the combo jack...?
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Oh yea, the digital version! Probably better. Only problem is the chip shortage. They now say they just don't know when they will get parts. But with what is going on in the world, it is the least of our problems! I should get back to getting my Stag back on the road and just listen to music for a while.
OK 🙂
"Turning the big VOLUME knob brings up the Volume screen of the currently selected output. Pushing the big Volume knob changes the volume setting between Outputs 1/2 and 3/4. The status bar at the bottom of the display shows the current dB value of both volume settings. A white rectangle around it (marker) indicates which volume the big encoder is currently set to control."
So probably one cant use it for volume control while utilising all 4 channels (3/4 is Headpone out)
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"Turning the big VOLUME knob brings up the Volume screen of the currently selected output. Pushing the big Volume knob changes the volume setting between Outputs 1/2 and 3/4. The status bar at the bottom of the display shows the current dB value of both volume settings. A white rectangle around it (marker) indicates which volume the big encoder is currently set to control."
So probably one cant use it for volume control while utilising all 4 channels (3/4 is Headpone out)
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That's a good point. I will check that out; I think the function rotates like "1/2 - 3/4 - both" but not absolutely sure.
And in the DAC setting, both 1/2 and 3/4 are absolutely identical even when the front panel has a phones label.
This unit attempts to be a home HiFi DAC as well as a compact recording/mixing studio device. Not always clear how that works with all the settings.
Edit: found the attached in the User Manual, seems clear. It's how I would do it ;-)
Jan
And in the DAC setting, both 1/2 and 3/4 are absolutely identical even when the front panel has a phones label.
This unit attempts to be a home HiFi DAC as well as a compact recording/mixing studio device. Not always clear how that works with all the settings.
Edit: found the attached in the User Manual, seems clear. It's how I would do it ;-)
Jan
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Really?. The realisation is very clean, but there is nothing ground breaking, or difficult about either section. the DSP is handily beaten in features by CamillaDSP. Its a great extra feature for a headphone amp/dac and the tactile control/interface is excellent, but as far as features and power of dedicated units, it falls behind IMO. The DAC? The first version was just a well implemented, but ageing AKM. The latest version, squeezes a lot of performance out of an ES9028Q2M, but it is still just a fairly vanilla ES9028Q2M DAC
That basically goes for anything. Equipment like the Benchmark power amp and DAC use the same parts you and I can buy.
But it is the complete understanding of the issues and meticulous implementation that makes all the difference in the world.
There's a tendency here to think that if you use an ESSxyz1234 you have by definition the best DAC. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Jan
But it is the complete understanding of the issues and meticulous implementation that makes all the difference in the world.
There's a tendency here to think that if you use an ESSxyz1234 you have by definition the best DAC. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Jan
Oh I dont think that at all. I'm not sure youve read my posts before? I've pulled many a poster up for the same sort of assumptions and me calling it a vanilla ess dac, was not so much about it being a ubiquitous chip; although it is, it was denoting it just being a well implemented, but fairly vanilla ESS design; nothing we havent seen before. I even made comments of the sort relating to this very unit, as people were assuming performance would improve when they changed to ESS chips. I said I doubted it, as the whole package is the priority (and I suspected the output protection arrangement was 'limiting' performance anyway)
I would expand on that a little. The realisation is very clean, but there is nothing ground breaking, or difficult about either section. Do not get me wrong, my definition of DIY includes designing the PCB and basic SMD reflow and its not a task you would take on lightly, but its doable. I'm not an ADI owner, just an admirer; although I have had several RME devices over the years, so i'm pretty familiar with totalmix and RMEs rock solid driver support and the superb matrix mixer was groundbreaking back in the day. The DSP is handily beaten in power and flexibility by CamillaDSP IMO, but the user interface and its reach into and abstraction of the hardware is second to none and that area is less easily achieved DIY, as it involves a team of software developers, support and years of professional user feedback, over generations of devices. Its a great extra feature for a headphone amp/dac and the tactile control/interface is excellent, driving the right set of headphones/active monitors it could be hard to beat already but as far as features and power of dedicated active speaker crossover DSP units, it falls behind IMO. It should not be difficult to match the AD/DA spec by spec in DIY, paired with a well designed headphone amp. It has already been done. The RME is not about peak performance, as a company they have generally focused on the user aspect.
Software and UI are the only areas you would struggle doing it DIY IMO and of course it would probably end up costing you more than just buying one if you could, given you arent going to beat this level of performance on first spin of the PCB. As a DIY project to save money it would make no sense at all.
My query was about whether its achievable DIY. I would disagree with TVRGEEK and say it is, with some caveats.
I would expand on that a little. The realisation is very clean, but there is nothing ground breaking, or difficult about either section. Do not get me wrong, my definition of DIY includes designing the PCB and basic SMD reflow and its not a task you would take on lightly, but its doable. I'm not an ADI owner, just an admirer; although I have had several RME devices over the years, so i'm pretty familiar with totalmix and RMEs rock solid driver support and the superb matrix mixer was groundbreaking back in the day. The DSP is handily beaten in power and flexibility by CamillaDSP IMO, but the user interface and its reach into and abstraction of the hardware is second to none and that area is less easily achieved DIY, as it involves a team of software developers, support and years of professional user feedback, over generations of devices. Its a great extra feature for a headphone amp/dac and the tactile control/interface is excellent, driving the right set of headphones/active monitors it could be hard to beat already but as far as features and power of dedicated active speaker crossover DSP units, it falls behind IMO. It should not be difficult to match the AD/DA spec by spec in DIY, paired with a well designed headphone amp. It has already been done. The RME is not about peak performance, as a company they have generally focused on the user aspect.
Software and UI are the only areas you would struggle doing it DIY IMO and of course it would probably end up costing you more than just buying one if you could, given you arent going to beat this level of performance on first spin of the PCB. As a DIY project to save money it would make no sense at all.
My query was about whether its achievable DIY. I would disagree with TVRGEEK and say it is, with some caveats.
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Ohh, I didn't mean to imply that you are of the 'select the right chip and it will be perfect' crew - I know you aren't!
I see it as a general approach here, though. And I can are to most your post as well.
Jan
I see it as a general approach here, though. And I can are to most your post as well.
Jan
OK great, I thought that would be weird.
not sure this is worded correctly. The performance of their gear has always been excellent, but spec chasers and 'top-shelfers' will find individual areas to improve on. The ADC could be better etc. As I understand it, RME will make a more useable and rugged device, taken as a whole at 99.99% performance, vs something less complete and reliable at 99.9999%. The engineering is top notch. Their MADI units are incredible. Their system-wide clocking/sync (MIDI+PCM) 👍. They arent MERGING, but they get pretty close, for a lot less money.
Piggybacking on this and hoping this thread is still followed by...someone...
I have the RME ADI FS DAC, and I love it, but it's also the only DAC I own besides the one in my Node streamer (I am more consumer than DIYer--you can ask all ten of my thumbs why). I'm trying to build the "best" setup for my Stax x9000, which are also my first ES headphones, and I'm using a Carbon amp.
I have a friend who actually knows what he's doing with audio engineering. He suggested to implement the Nelson Pass I/V converter (https://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_zen_iv.pdf) as an output on my RME, if I pay for the parts. But it's an important distinction to make that he's not an RME enthusiast--he's a DIY enthusiast, so this will be a bit of an experiment. He's already building me a Kevin Gilmore Golden Reference PSU for the RME, so I thought, why not keep going?
I agreed to the mod because I trust my friend...but I personally have a basement-dwelling layperson's understanding of how this mod will or will not have any noticeable effect. In other words, I'm just making a guess that the mod will make a noticeable difference in SQ.
I'm posting here, as there's obviously lots of enthusiasm for both the RME and the Pass I/V (at least there was circa 2010), and I'm not sure whether the mod is a match for the RME, given its already high-quality build.
Strong opinions are warmly welcome 🙂
Are you going to use the Analogue output from the RME dac and feed it to the D1 I/V stage? Is there some benefit in doing this?
Is the Carbon Amp the one from Cavalli?
Is the Carbon Amp the one from Cavalli?