'Don't go usb route' : some measurements microphones are availlable with usb output to be connected directly to a computer.
I don't recommend them and prefer a 'regular' measurement microphone which needs a soundcard with microphone input ( including phantom power to supply the mic) and adc.
Like this one:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/DAYTON-AUDI...1-9650-4013-a26a-afdc6cb7665d&redirect=mobile
Or this one:
https://www.thomann.de/fr/behringer...PTTz3hc9jpqRtexEkEVN-l2KMI8RSgnYaAuYuEALw_wcB
For soundcard something like that:
https://www.thomann.de/fr/rme_fireface_ufx_ii.htm
Or
https://www.thomann.de/fr/focusrite_scarlett_18i20_3rd_gen.htm
Or
https://www.thomann.de/fr/motu_828x.htm
As you can see there is difference in price but this is essentialy the same things. The price reflects some options and 'grade'. But they'll mostly sound better than typical 'audiophile' products.
They don't offers 384khz or other fantasy because it is not used to record or produce music. Maybe in future but i doubt it'll soon be used...
I don't recommend them and prefer a 'regular' measurement microphone which needs a soundcard with microphone input ( including phantom power to supply the mic) and adc.
Like this one:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/DAYTON-AUDI...1-9650-4013-a26a-afdc6cb7665d&redirect=mobile
Or this one:
https://www.thomann.de/fr/behringer...PTTz3hc9jpqRtexEkEVN-l2KMI8RSgnYaAuYuEALw_wcB
For soundcard something like that:
https://www.thomann.de/fr/rme_fireface_ufx_ii.htm
Or
https://www.thomann.de/fr/focusrite_scarlett_18i20_3rd_gen.htm
Or
https://www.thomann.de/fr/motu_828x.htm
As you can see there is difference in price but this is essentialy the same things. The price reflects some options and 'grade'. But they'll mostly sound better than typical 'audiophile' products.
They don't offers 384khz or other fantasy because it is not used to record or produce music. Maybe in future but i doubt it'll soon be used...
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Difficult to say but i think the grey box in the middle row could be a Trinnov Amethist processor or something similar so i would say yes.
Be carefull with yt video. They can't give you the rendering of a real system ( if they are not just fake).
Silvio have you access to some kind of loudspeaker you can listen to? I mean some JBL4345, or the same kind in the video? Only listening to this system will tell you what please you the most.
The way to achieve it ( by dsp or passive with tube or whatever) doesn't matter as much as the loudspeaker design in the outcome.
Be carefull with yt video. They can't give you the rendering of a real system ( if they are not just fake).
Silvio have you access to some kind of loudspeaker you can listen to? I mean some JBL4345, or the same kind in the video? Only listening to this system will tell you what please you the most.
The way to achieve it ( by dsp or passive with tube or whatever) doesn't matter as much as the loudspeaker design in the outcome.
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How many devices will the system consist of? It was the amplifiers and source, I mean the equipment for DSP crossover.
Ok here is a thread where you can find schematics of a typical pc based implementation. Mr BA have done nice schematic of his set up and documented his evolution.
This one use a DAW for processing ( Reaper) and Rosetta converters and Lynx soundcard:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/apogee-rosetta-800.357135/
And this is the day where i face that i keep saying the same thing again and again and again... it must be boring for others... 😀
This one use a DAW for processing ( Reaper) and Rosetta converters and Lynx soundcard:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/apogee-rosetta-800.357135/
And this is the day where i face that i keep saying the same thing again and again and again... it must be boring for others... 😀
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I haven't read it fully yet, but that's about how mine will work, except 16 or more channels out; 8 for the L/R and the rest for surrounds and LFE as it's an all in one system, 2ch and HT. More than 16ch if the surrounds are active. The analog ins on mine will use a conventional type preamp for switching most likely (I already have it).
My own system is configured ( mostly, there is some small difference) as in the message #23 in Mr Ba's thread. Like Brett's one it seems too.
I think we should have published a schematic like that sooner in your thread.
Mental confusion... no, you just talk with advanced users of 'advanced solutions' ( a lot of users still preferes passive for simplicity of use... and i have an audio reproduction chain like that at home too: my kids are not allowed to touch Dad's toys!) who have forgotten to be simple about explanations... and in a foreign language! Not an easy task. You can be proud of yourself not to have already gave up! 👍
Both the link in your message are soundcards but aimed at different target: focusrite for pro/ musicians, the other one to consummer market.
In Mr Ba's thread the Lynx card and the Apogee Rosetta are equal to the Focusrite you linked.
The thing you MUST use in a config like that is the SPL Volume8 controller, it simplyfy use of system greatly ( one knob to control all amplifiers level at once and a mute push button to shut it down).
And as it is pro gear it is compatible with soundcard output level and format ( +4dbu, balanced signal).
About Decibels ( dbu, dbv, dbU,...) keep this link bookmarked you'll need it in future believe me ( one thing is not explicitly told: the values in table are for RMS ( Root Means Square, a way to express 'average' level of a sinusoidal wave):
https://www.sowter.co.uk/decibels.php
I think we should have published a schematic like that sooner in your thread.
Mental confusion... no, you just talk with advanced users of 'advanced solutions' ( a lot of users still preferes passive for simplicity of use... and i have an audio reproduction chain like that at home too: my kids are not allowed to touch Dad's toys!) who have forgotten to be simple about explanations... and in a foreign language! Not an easy task. You can be proud of yourself not to have already gave up! 👍
Both the link in your message are soundcards but aimed at different target: focusrite for pro/ musicians, the other one to consummer market.
In Mr Ba's thread the Lynx card and the Apogee Rosetta are equal to the Focusrite you linked.
The thing you MUST use in a config like that is the SPL Volume8 controller, it simplyfy use of system greatly ( one knob to control all amplifiers level at once and a mute push button to shut it down).
And as it is pro gear it is compatible with soundcard output level and format ( +4dbu, balanced signal).
About Decibels ( dbu, dbv, dbU,...) keep this link bookmarked you'll need it in future believe me ( one thing is not explicitly told: the values in table are for RMS ( Root Means Square, a way to express 'average' level of a sinusoidal wave):
https://www.sowter.co.uk/decibels.php
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🟢 I'm very grateful to be talking to everyone, very grateful for the time you dedicated to me.
I went to visit the link you showed me, I read the whole topic carefully, I saw your participation there.
Result:
Now I understand that I am entering a world that does not belong to me, more expensive than all this equipment is the abyss that exists between me and the understanding of so many acronyms, so many technical terms and some common slang.
The only way I can proceed (and this is my view today) is:
01 - Being able to have access to the link of the equipment I need to buy.
02 - With the equipment, I will hire a local audio engineer and show him this topic so he understands what I want to do.
Maybe he can understand my limitations because of the ease of the native language.
😔
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You might end up with two Hypex FA253 (the FA123 is enough for home applications though). That should cover the X-over-part and the amp part in one solution. Don't know if it's obtainable there. But a lot cheaper (and better) than the MF route. Note this is not a computer based X-over solution, but since you get the X-over part virtually for free, I'd know what to pick. Or, far cheaper and pretty well performing, the Sure/Wondom amp boards with or without DSP, are really 'geek' solutions.
If you only are out for multichannel amps, I'd look for studio brands.
If you only are out for multichannel amps, I'd look for studio brands.
What is an "X" part?
What is X-over solution?
I put the title (the Sure/Wondom amp boards ) on google, it doesn't bring me anything related to the topic, nothing that I can understand what it's about.
I like amplifiers with high musical fidelity and that fit in my budget, I couldn't buy a McIntosh amplifier, a Hegel or a Jeff Rowland for example. I will probably buy an integrated amplifier cost benefit.
🟡 I wish I had a tube amp, but I don't understand anything about them other than the fact that I was thrilled when I heard them at an event.
Yes, I'm determined to do this project, unless the money doesn't arrive in time.
That would force me to look for a 3way project
Then there is no need to spend for audio jewelry like that.
Ok i will try to summarize the situation:
You want a 4 way system. From all members which adviced here we think doing the filtering/cross-over in passive is a no go ( cross over= x-over, an x looks like a cross on it's side, so here is an acronym 😉 ).
So if you want to succeed with the project there is no escape for what is called 'active filtering' and some of us think that DSP is the simplest way to do it.
So from there you have choice between a 'loudspeaker management system' ( what we usually call a DSP, like the behringer 2496, miniDSP hd, Dolby Lake,...) or a computer based solution with a soundcard.
Both are essentially the same things: some software ( acronym: 'soft' in my writings) run by a computer which will perform the treatments ( xovers, equalization,...) and a bunch of hardware parts which will perform the translation from digital world ( what is done inside the computer) to analog world ( the input of your amplifiers).
This is performed by what we call 'converters' ( acronym: Analog to Digital Converters ( ADC) to input analog into digital world, so your analog source like a vinyl turntable or a measurement microphone ; Digital to Analog Converters ( DAC) which translate the digital signal to analog world: the output that will drive your amplifiers).
The schematics given in Mr BA's thread are a representation of this with analog input/output and the arrows representing the signal path.
I will add things to make it clearer to understand later this day.
This can seems complex but in practice it isn't so much.
Mr Ba's system is : a pc with a soundcard ( Lynx card) which communicate to the ( Rosetta's) converters i/o ( input/output) through an AES/EBU signal ( a kind of digital language used to connect digital gear together). In practice this is ONE cable ( called a multipair because it carries multiple...pairs of signals! It can be a digital dedicated cable ( this is the case here) or an analog dedicated one. 😉 ).
From there the Rosetta outputs ( the 8xDAC which send an analog signal) are each connected to a channel of the SPL Volume 8 which control the overall level of the system. This can be One multipair cable too ( an analog dedicated one this time). Then the output of the Volume 8 are connected to the amplifiers channels ( using here again One analog multipair too).
All taken into account there is a pc, a 19" rack ( Apogee Rosetta), a desktop unit ( the SPL Vol 8) and the 4 stereo amplifiers. Two analog multipairs and one digital multipair.
Is it clear to you Silvio?
You want a 4 way system. From all members which adviced here we think doing the filtering/cross-over in passive is a no go ( cross over= x-over, an x looks like a cross on it's side, so here is an acronym 😉 ).
So if you want to succeed with the project there is no escape for what is called 'active filtering' and some of us think that DSP is the simplest way to do it.
So from there you have choice between a 'loudspeaker management system' ( what we usually call a DSP, like the behringer 2496, miniDSP hd, Dolby Lake,...) or a computer based solution with a soundcard.
Both are essentially the same things: some software ( acronym: 'soft' in my writings) run by a computer which will perform the treatments ( xovers, equalization,...) and a bunch of hardware parts which will perform the translation from digital world ( what is done inside the computer) to analog world ( the input of your amplifiers).
This is performed by what we call 'converters' ( acronym: Analog to Digital Converters ( ADC) to input analog into digital world, so your analog source like a vinyl turntable or a measurement microphone ; Digital to Analog Converters ( DAC) which translate the digital signal to analog world: the output that will drive your amplifiers).
The schematics given in Mr BA's thread are a representation of this with analog input/output and the arrows representing the signal path.
I will add things to make it clearer to understand later this day.
This can seems complex but in practice it isn't so much.
Mr Ba's system is : a pc with a soundcard ( Lynx card) which communicate to the ( Rosetta's) converters i/o ( input/output) through an AES/EBU signal ( a kind of digital language used to connect digital gear together). In practice this is ONE cable ( called a multipair because it carries multiple...pairs of signals! It can be a digital dedicated cable ( this is the case here) or an analog dedicated one. 😉 ).
From there the Rosetta outputs ( the 8xDAC which send an analog signal) are each connected to a channel of the SPL Volume 8 which control the overall level of the system. This can be One multipair cable too ( an analog dedicated one this time). Then the output of the Volume 8 are connected to the amplifiers channels ( using here again One analog multipair too).
All taken into account there is a pc, a 19" rack ( Apogee Rosetta), a desktop unit ( the SPL Vol 8) and the 4 stereo amplifiers. Two analog multipairs and one digital multipair.
Is it clear to you Silvio?
As for Sure/Wondom, look here. X-over: the crossover you need to 'tune' your 4-way system. Yes, the Hypex only come in 3-way, so you'd need another separate amp. Or: use a passive crossover on the high-mid to high frequency loudspeakers. Using two 2-way Hypex plate amps is a possibility too.
If you want amps that look -ahem- nice too, spend them bucks on a fancy audiophile brand. Personally, I have found that relatively cheap amps perform stellar, even chip amp designs do. I would therefore not consider spending my money on such equipment. This will play most if not all other amps away, if you need an example.
If you want amps that look -ahem- nice too, spend them bucks on a fancy audiophile brand. Personally, I have found that relatively cheap amps perform stellar, even chip amp designs do. I would therefore not consider spending my money on such equipment. This will play most if not all other amps away, if you need an example.
I would add to Markbakk's and Brett's statements that once you use multiple amplifiers the difference in sound are minimized between amps ( acronym:amplifier) type or quality.
The fact that each amp have less work to do ( it doesn't have to amplify low and high together) lower a lot distortions that makes some amplifiers sounding better than others.
You could use this as an advantage too: use tube amps for mid/high where they are so good and classD or transistor in sub and low where they are potents and in control.
Win-win: best of both world. What Mr Ba did too.
The fact that each amp have less work to do ( it doesn't have to amplify low and high together) lower a lot distortions that makes some amplifiers sounding better than others.
You could use this as an advantage too: use tube amps for mid/high where they are so good and classD or transistor in sub and low where they are potents and in control.
Win-win: best of both world. What Mr Ba did too.
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Yes, it started to get clearer. some doubts still linger, such as: What equipment are these literally?
You mention a Lynx board and I believe I can find it here correct? However, there are several.
It wouldn't be an expensive board, I just need it, I see that my budget is over
Litteraly a Lynx is a digital in/out soundcard. Like my Rme: it gives your computer the ability to output audio digital stream ( called AES/EBU) to communicate with other digital gear.
For the Lynx it is up to 8x input and 8x output chanels ( either 4xstereo or 8 mono/individuals chanels or a mix). Mine is up to 16i/o.
The Apogee Rosetta take those digital stream from computer ( the 8 signal needed for your 2x 4way loudspeakers) and transform this into analog signal that'll drive the amps.
All this is done internaly into the Focusrite soundcard: you plug it with usb3 and then your software have access to 8 ins/ 8 outs directly within software: there is no needs for the AES/EBU part described in Mr Ba's system ( or mine) so no need for Lynx or Rme: just a Focusrite scarlett 18/20 and you are good to go.
Is it clearer?
For the Lynx it is up to 8x input and 8x output chanels ( either 4xstereo or 8 mono/individuals chanels or a mix). Mine is up to 16i/o.
The Apogee Rosetta take those digital stream from computer ( the 8 signal needed for your 2x 4way loudspeakers) and transform this into analog signal that'll drive the amps.
All this is done internaly into the Focusrite soundcard: you plug it with usb3 and then your software have access to 8 ins/ 8 outs directly within software: there is no needs for the AES/EBU part described in Mr Ba's system ( or mine) so no need for Lynx or Rme: just a Focusrite scarlett 18/20 and you are good to go.
Is it clearer?
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