I don't have enough experience to pick a design direction with confidence!
after letting my project collect dust for what feels like most of a year, I want to pick it back up and as of now, I intend to go the same route I had before, but my shopping cart is gone as is the notebook I was using, so I'm back to the initial concept check, but since I'm a novice with actually finishing speakers I'm not confident in my brainstorming/sketch/prototyping phase like I usually am.
The woofer seems to be the only difficult part of most speakers- it's the size (so it's the box) and watt draw (plus possible venting) so I would love to see what is common with other builders, what they aim to get from the speaker and cabinet, and the type/use of the project. I really feel like I might be doing goofy stuff like trying to aircool a modern motorbike engine in order to run an electric generator indoors.
original idea was something like: ~40-20,000 hz active 3 way with ~ 8"-10 inch woofer with 1-1.65 CF enclosure, probably sealed - easier design tolerances and shallower roll off. Woofer crossed over pretty low to some 3-6 inch anything-but-sealed-back midrange about .1CF enclosure and a 1" dual ring radiator tweeter (the part I'm most sure of).
I plan on hanging these from where I currently have my speaker ceiling mounts, which ATM bear a dissimilar pair frankenstein 3 way made out of a wine case and something that a wine case might be superior to, are powered with a technics sx-1200 6 channel 100w per amp, although I've intended to buy a mini dsp with this order to play around with and possibly integrate in an iterative upgrade, and if I do that will probably build a piggyback box for each channels amps and crossovers.
I am (and was when I was doing this months ago) all over the place with what I should do for the woofer which everything else is kinda dependent on to establish the size and operating framework. Flit between vented and sealed, then ok I'll make it 2 ft-as big as I can stand, then think my original bass freq was a childish guess and up the f3 by 20 hz, change it again. doubt myself, stop for a while. start back in the cycle of indecision.
are the numbers I'm posting logical to everyone else?
feel free to harshly critique the style since it looks like a disjointed lunatics lucid glimpse through the clouds. if desired, I will promptly explain/rewrite any part unclear or disliked by anyone on request.
after letting my project collect dust for what feels like most of a year, I want to pick it back up and as of now, I intend to go the same route I had before, but my shopping cart is gone as is the notebook I was using, so I'm back to the initial concept check, but since I'm a novice with actually finishing speakers I'm not confident in my brainstorming/sketch/prototyping phase like I usually am.
The woofer seems to be the only difficult part of most speakers- it's the size (so it's the box) and watt draw (plus possible venting) so I would love to see what is common with other builders, what they aim to get from the speaker and cabinet, and the type/use of the project. I really feel like I might be doing goofy stuff like trying to aircool a modern motorbike engine in order to run an electric generator indoors.
original idea was something like: ~40-20,000 hz active 3 way with ~ 8"-10 inch woofer with 1-1.65 CF enclosure, probably sealed - easier design tolerances and shallower roll off. Woofer crossed over pretty low to some 3-6 inch anything-but-sealed-back midrange about .1CF enclosure and a 1" dual ring radiator tweeter (the part I'm most sure of).
I plan on hanging these from where I currently have my speaker ceiling mounts, which ATM bear a dissimilar pair frankenstein 3 way made out of a wine case and something that a wine case might be superior to, are powered with a technics sx-1200 6 channel 100w per amp, although I've intended to buy a mini dsp with this order to play around with and possibly integrate in an iterative upgrade, and if I do that will probably build a piggyback box for each channels amps and crossovers.
I am (and was when I was doing this months ago) all over the place with what I should do for the woofer which everything else is kinda dependent on to establish the size and operating framework. Flit between vented and sealed, then ok I'll make it 2 ft-as big as I can stand, then think my original bass freq was a childish guess and up the f3 by 20 hz, change it again. doubt myself, stop for a while. start back in the cycle of indecision.
are the numbers I'm posting logical to everyone else?
feel free to harshly critique the style since it looks like a disjointed lunatics lucid glimpse through the clouds. if desired, I will promptly explain/rewrite any part unclear or disliked by anyone on request.
There are no fixed answers.
A big box with a small driver can go low, and even move more air than many larger drivers in a smaller box.
And efficiency plays a role: Hoffman’s Iron Law.
Do note that F(-3) is more or less meaningless to humans. Look at F6 and F10, do not forget the room, or potential interactions of loudspeaker impedances with amplifier output impedance.
And then there is you. Tastes, budget, contraints.
dave
A big box with a small driver can go low, and even move more air than many larger drivers in a smaller box.
And efficiency plays a role: Hoffman’s Iron Law.
Do note that F(-3) is more or less meaningless to humans. Look at F6 and F10, do not forget the room, or potential interactions of loudspeaker impedances with amplifier output impedance.
And then there is you. Tastes, budget, contraints.
dave
This is interesting. So the "speakers" are aiming at the listener/s. Usually I prefer to display/set the "boxes" orthogonal to the room, but there's also a different view, where the "point sources" are placed where it occurs and it's not the "right place" but some compromise needs to be accepted, so a speaker hanging from the ceiling- I use loooooong rubberband ropes- above the head needs to be turned down ( inclination, not volume!) a little.
About the speakers, I wouldn't go above 7" for the woofer.
I use a 12" woofer in a sealed box. 70 liters, with active DSP crossover and a Linkwitz Transform. I have measured -3 dB at 30 Hz, and -10 dB at 19 Hz. I can share more details, specs, measurements if this is the kind of woofer system you are interested in.
j.
Wise words. Too often people go chasing numbers (sometimes justifiably, other times not) and forget that humans usually can't determine when something is "perfect enough" vs truly perfect.
I can only draw on my own ideas, which are gradually taking shape...
A big 2-way (partially inspired by discussions on the forum, but focused on modest domestic volume levels). I'm considering an Eminence Beta 12A-2 in 60+L. The Deltalite ii 2512 could be another, or similar offerings in the low-power end of a few other pro-audio brands.
My latest thinking-out-loud is to abandon the usual heavy box approach. I'm OCD enough already. If a 20kg box still moves, I'll just make it 5kg (TYVM) and allow it move by design. Done right, the box should then emanate undistorted dipole vibration that is at least 30-40dB down.
The tweeter is still up in the air, and will have its own box. I'm tempted to build a pair of shallow waveguides, but I've always hated squawky pro-horns so there would be some risk in it for me to get it right. Another part of me wants to go full-range for the 1kHz+ range. I've never liked the sound of dome tweeters, though it may just be an unlucky selection of ones I've heard so far. Conceptually, I'd rather go with something that follows "proper" engineering principles like tweeters that are built like miniature woofers, preventing rocking modes in the voice coil. That said, it's all just opinion until I build it and see/hear.
A big 2-way (partially inspired by discussions on the forum, but focused on modest domestic volume levels). I'm considering an Eminence Beta 12A-2 in 60+L. The Deltalite ii 2512 could be another, or similar offerings in the low-power end of a few other pro-audio brands.
My latest thinking-out-loud is to abandon the usual heavy box approach. I'm OCD enough already. If a 20kg box still moves, I'll just make it 5kg (TYVM) and allow it move by design. Done right, the box should then emanate undistorted dipole vibration that is at least 30-40dB down.
The tweeter is still up in the air, and will have its own box. I'm tempted to build a pair of shallow waveguides, but I've always hated squawky pro-horns so there would be some risk in it for me to get it right. Another part of me wants to go full-range for the 1kHz+ range. I've never liked the sound of dome tweeters, though it may just be an unlucky selection of ones I've heard so far. Conceptually, I'd rather go with something that follows "proper" engineering principles like tweeters that are built like miniature woofers, preventing rocking modes in the voice coil. That said, it's all just opinion until I build it and see/hear.