Hi there. I got 2x 15 1400xl from faitalpro. I used them up to now in a t-line with around 500 liters. The project is a success but i very soon realized that i can get even more spl out of those chassis. So i looked up for 6th order bandpasses and built myself one on hornsep. Do you think the following design can work out as a bandpass? i dont know how you have to properly build a volume and a port, that properly work together. The parameters of my CAD model and the typed in ones on hornresp match. The program tells me it should work out, but what do you think about it?
The enclosure is a 6th order in series. The speaker alignment is a parallel one, though both speakers are on 4 ohm and i drive them separatedly with my t.amp E1500 on 1400 watts.
The graph is plotted on quarterspace radiation, since i plan to use it most of the time placed in a corner. Dont worry, i looked for its halfspace radiation too.
As you can see i aim for loud 20-40 hz. Although i must say I realized i mostly want to listen to modern dnb and dubstep on the planned enclosure. So going below 30hz is not required at all. If i get theoretically down to 26-28hz im happy enough about it. I just had the theory that a huge port ends up working a bit like horn mouth. Did i get that wrong?
This is supposed to be the 6th order in series. It is 75x75x155 cm big and has about 650 liters. Is the length of a port comparable to a line of a horn?
Alternatively i tried designing a Tapped Horn out of this enclosure. I must say you can get a nicer and flater response up to 100 hz with that type of enclosure. Do you guys think a tapped horn would suit my needs better than this bandpass build? I dont want to get a too wobbly and unprecise bass, but i lack experience in building enclosures . This would be my second project ever.
My aim is simply to get the most spl out of it with not getting a too nasty sounding enclosure. As far as i know my best bets are either on a 6th order series or a tapped horn for this kind of application. I am open for new recommendations too of course!
The enclosure is a 6th order in series. The speaker alignment is a parallel one, though both speakers are on 4 ohm and i drive them separatedly with my t.amp E1500 on 1400 watts.
The graph is plotted on quarterspace radiation, since i plan to use it most of the time placed in a corner. Dont worry, i looked for its halfspace radiation too.
As you can see i aim for loud 20-40 hz. Although i must say I realized i mostly want to listen to modern dnb and dubstep on the planned enclosure. So going below 30hz is not required at all. If i get theoretically down to 26-28hz im happy enough about it. I just had the theory that a huge port ends up working a bit like horn mouth. Did i get that wrong?
This is supposed to be the 6th order in series. It is 75x75x155 cm big and has about 650 liters. Is the length of a port comparable to a line of a horn?
Alternatively i tried designing a Tapped Horn out of this enclosure. I must say you can get a nicer and flater response up to 100 hz with that type of enclosure. Do you guys think a tapped horn would suit my needs better than this bandpass build? I dont want to get a too wobbly and unprecise bass, but i lack experience in building enclosures . This would be my second project ever.
My aim is simply to get the most spl out of it with not getting a too nasty sounding enclosure. As far as i know my best bets are either on a 6th order series or a tapped horn for this kind of application. I am open for new recommendations too of course!
The issue i have here is that im not sure wether the second, bigger chamber can really work out as a bandpass chamber. The diameter of the volume and of the port are basically the same and rather much look like a big line instead of a chamber with a port. Can this lead me into problems?
Hmm,what matters is whether or not its air mass 'plug' + 1/4 WL resonance damps/tunes it to whatever you're wanting, which HR or similar should be able to accurately sim.
360 cm , tuned to speed of light . ~29.9hz. Kind of resembles your layout. Turn off the driver wants to go that low. I mean, it appears to you, but I would have to cut and filter stuff down below real quick and it runs into trouble. I think you mentioned that already? so maybe its all good .
Attachments
How far could you run your EQ/DSP before reaching excursion problems? i planned to tune it to a frequency around 28-30 hz and then go just like 2-3 hz lower and cut with 24 per octave or so. maybe i could start cutting at the resonance and then boosting 1hz below for 2db or so... i have never built a bandpass before and idk how excursion works below tuning point.
Hornresp tells me i could go down to like 25hz before reaching theoretical max excursion. I doubt that though, since my already built t-line behaves less forgiving below and even a bit above resonance point.
Excursion increases 6 dB (4x)/octave, but the roll off of the TL being somewhat < a typical 4th order cab alignment allows it to go lower in frequency before running out of Xmax, though of course if the sim doesn't match the measured response........ Regardless, one can figure the Xmax point by measuring the roll off, starting at some higher point where the piston calculator is accurate: http://www.baudline.com/erik/bass/xmaxer.html
Fabyo,
Your 714.5 liter series BP6 simulated response drops like a rock below Fb (the impedance minima of 1.6 ohms) with a 25Hz BW24 the excursion is kept to around 12mm below Fb without an audible loss. Boosting below Fb wastes power and makes the rest of the range sound worse, though the flapping cones can make the the floor shake more ;^).
My general preference for sound quality would be a sub with raw rising upper response equalized flat, compared to one peaking at the bottom with the upper end equalized flat.
A pair of Faitalpro1400xl in a TH a bit over half the cabinet volume of the BP6 box would be capable of a lot more "chest thump".
If it were folded like the Keystone Sub, partially covering the Keystone exit could tune response downward to a similar response as the 714.5 liter series BP6, though with a bit less sensitivity.
I'd be inclined to build two singles rather than a double in either case, simply to afford more room placement options-a small room dominates the response of whatever sub(s) you populate it with.
Art
Very expensive and very nice drivers.
Looking at roller coaster impedance plot and roller coaster cone movement.
looks like inaccurate waste of a good speaker.
And large heavy enclosure.
Just build a normal Reflex Cabinet.
Needs to be modeled with protection high pass filter.
FS is 38 Hz it is what its got.
If enclosure is in a corner as noted, this will boost bass.
with highpass filter you should get very close to 1400 watt thermal max.
My main concern would be a well braced cabinet and enough port area for
1400 watts.
Be more interested in a symmetrical port design
at 1400 watts be more concerned with cone rocking.
Looking at roller coaster impedance plot and roller coaster cone movement.
looks like inaccurate waste of a good speaker.
And large heavy enclosure.
Just build a normal Reflex Cabinet.
Needs to be modeled with protection high pass filter.
FS is 38 Hz it is what its got.
If enclosure is in a corner as noted, this will boost bass.
with highpass filter you should get very close to 1400 watt thermal max.
My main concern would be a well braced cabinet and enough port area for
1400 watts.
Be more interested in a symmetrical port design
at 1400 watts be more concerned with cone rocking.
WhiteDragon,
A ported box will still give impedance and excursion curves that vary with frequency. That doesn't make them a waste of a speaker. I'd also be surprised if you could get a bass reflex cabinet to keep up with a tapped horn in terms of output. It's worth noting that these THs are also hitting the low-30Hz-range, which a bass reflex tuned to 38Hz won't do at high SPLs.
Chris
A ported box will still give impedance and excursion curves that vary with frequency. That doesn't make them a waste of a speaker. I'd also be surprised if you could get a bass reflex cabinet to keep up with a tapped horn in terms of output. It's worth noting that these THs are also hitting the low-30Hz-range, which a bass reflex tuned to 38Hz won't do at high SPLs.
Chris
Looking at what you got to work with and what’s been posted…. now I would definitely lean in the direction of what Arts got shown. it’s the best bang for the buck, it is the size that’s convenient and you get two of them to spread around however that might work out.
There’s absolutely a signature sound to that type of cabinet as well there’s something to that that a bass reflex just doesn’t come up with. It’s not just the generic terms like sensitivity or output it is a signature sound with a an extra snap or kick in that area that you don’t want to miss. It really is special
There’s absolutely a signature sound to that type of cabinet as well there’s something to that that a bass reflex just doesn’t come up with. It’s not just the generic terms like sensitivity or output it is a signature sound with a an extra snap or kick in that area that you don’t want to miss. It really is special
My goal is to get max SPL for DnB and similar genre. so hitting 50hz to 30hz (great would be 25) is a must for me. I rather waste SPL for kicks and just try to get flying hair in my 20m² room, in which the sub will stay 99% of its time. I already get that with my t-line, but i realized that TH and Bandpasses can get even more. Im not interested in building a simple bassreflex, since its "just" a 4th order.
Furthermore i realized that splitting that huge box of 700 liters into maybe 2x 350 liter enclosures does not get me the same efficieny as putting them both into one huge cabin, which surprised me in the beginning. Of course, if i get for example 112 or 113db and put them together i end up with 115 to 116 for reference. My guess was that splitting them will make me cost maybe 1-2 db efficiency after all.
I even tried out designing some THs until now. I always end up with around 4m of a hornline... which i doubt i will find any joy in building it. An example would be this here:
I must say i really have no idea of TH. I just tried to figure out something just by trying out and applying simple logic on the model.
One thing is for sure. I got a fetish for HUGE ports. I just had this theory in my mind that designing huge ports gets air moving better than smaller ones, even if you got the same mass of air moving through. 🙂
Furthermore i realized that splitting that huge box of 700 liters into maybe 2x 350 liter enclosures does not get me the same efficieny as putting them both into one huge cabin, which surprised me in the beginning. Of course, if i get for example 112 or 113db and put them together i end up with 115 to 116 for reference. My guess was that splitting them will make me cost maybe 1-2 db efficiency after all.
I even tried out designing some THs until now. I always end up with around 4m of a hornline... which i doubt i will find any joy in building it. An example would be this here:
I must say i really have no idea of TH. I just tried to figure out something just by trying out and applying simple logic on the model.
One thing is for sure. I got a fetish for HUGE ports. I just had this theory in my mind that designing huge ports gets air moving better than smaller ones, even if you got the same mass of air moving through. 🙂
I didnt build anything new yet. Although I am really close to building the inital BP 6th order i posted in here. Maybe I think about splitting them into single Bandpass enclosures. Though i wonder if it still makes sense for me to build them as bandpass-series.
The 2x15 Bandpass looks like this now by the way. I wonder of my assumption of skipping completly on the acoustic chamber and just designing it as a port is the right thing to do....
Is this any better now?
Worse based solely on flattest over the widest BW. IME, more is better, so multiple subs is a 'no brainer' if there's enough space to optimize the locations and the various 'budgets' permits.
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And just for your information, and maybe to satiate your curiosity. This is my t-line with the xl1400 as it is:
Dont get confused by the basketball and different speakers inside the enclosure xD. It was for glueing bracing. It got much more bracing now than you can see on that old picture. Additionally i almost removed every dampening material. The enclosure sounds still very nice with almost 0% damping. It got around 500 liters.... but a very small port that blows way too much imo.... 🙁
As you can see, my t-line enclosure lacks SPL. It does resonate around 25 hz, unlike hornresp tells me around 23 ish. But to be fair, i made some abbreviations of the model like a slightly shorter hornlength and such. It should be something like this though. You can see... 30-50hz with an 110ish dB efficiency is the reason why i try to get more.
Theoretically getting 116+ dB efficency equals to 4 of those enclosures... It must be mindblowing. The resonance at 25 hz is just wasted on normal music.. Even on modern electronic stuff you just dont get 25 hz...
Dont get confused by the basketball and different speakers inside the enclosure xD. It was for glueing bracing. It got much more bracing now than you can see on that old picture. Additionally i almost removed every dampening material. The enclosure sounds still very nice with almost 0% damping. It got around 500 liters.... but a very small port that blows way too much imo.... 🙁
As you can see, my t-line enclosure lacks SPL. It does resonate around 25 hz, unlike hornresp tells me around 23 ish. But to be fair, i made some abbreviations of the model like a slightly shorter hornlength and such. It should be something like this though. You can see... 30-50hz with an 110ish dB efficiency is the reason why i try to get more.
Theoretically getting 116+ dB efficency equals to 4 of those enclosures... It must be mindblowing. The resonance at 25 hz is just wasted on normal music.. Even on modern electronic stuff you just dont get 25 hz...
Yeah, at a glance it really needs an inverse tapered offset driver (ML)TQWT redesign with a higher compression ratio (CR) or go TH.