Hi All,
I have a 2 way comprised of B&C 12NBX100 and DE500 and have been in daily use. These are now almost a decade old. Speakers are doing well, no issues. I was wondering if I should be considering replacing these drivers. The amp is now of the same age as well. I thought maybe replacing the drivers will bring back some magic lost over time. How much do drivers lose their performance over time? Is it worth the cost?
I have a 2 way comprised of B&C 12NBX100 and DE500 and have been in daily use. These are now almost a decade old. Speakers are doing well, no issues. I was wondering if I should be considering replacing these drivers. The amp is now of the same age as well. I thought maybe replacing the drivers will bring back some magic lost over time. How much do drivers lose their performance over time? Is it worth the cost?
"Speakers are doing well, no issues" - I think you're suffering from Gear Acquisition Syndrome.... "magic lost" - how careless....🙂
"2 way" - perhaps you could move on to a 3 way?
"2 way" - perhaps you could move on to a 3 way?
The first time you see the Eiffel Tower with your beloved, at age 18.
Then a decade later you see the Eiffel Tower, now at 28.
That magic that first captivated your attention is somewhat lost.
The brain loves novelty. That is neurobiology.
Then a decade later you see the Eiffel Tower, now at 28.
That magic that first captivated your attention is somewhat lost.
The brain loves novelty. That is neurobiology.
Not much, unless they've been used brutally throughout the day, for years together, like in music bands, cinemas etc. However, note that even such professional contractors may still prefer repairs such as reconing, diaphragm replacement etc.
There's a school of thought that bass drivers actually improve with age!
The bass drivers in my Man Cave are now over 50 years old.
The only change (haven't measured it for years) is likely to be a slight lowering of the natural frequency of resonance of their cones.
The bass drivers in my Man Cave are now over 50 years old.
The only change (haven't measured it for years) is likely to be a slight lowering of the natural frequency of resonance of their cones.
While bass drivers supposedly get better over time, does it apply for compression drivers too? Again these drivers are 10 years old now and have been in constant use.
I don't want to consider reconing/diaphragm replacement, because I don't have experience in that, and new drivers are not that expensive either.
Originally it had a minidsp active cross over and recently it died and I replaced it with a new architecture of a Raspberry Pi and Motu Ultralite Mk 5. This has dropped the noise floor quite a bit, and opened up the sound stage a bit and improved the sound. I remember better treble in the past. I understand that my own hearing has gone down a bit over the years, but, hey, the tweeter is $185 a piece, so maybe I can get another decade out of these speakers.
Not a bad deal right?
I don't want to consider reconing/diaphragm replacement, because I don't have experience in that, and new drivers are not that expensive either.
Originally it had a minidsp active cross over and recently it died and I replaced it with a new architecture of a Raspberry Pi and Motu Ultralite Mk 5. This has dropped the noise floor quite a bit, and opened up the sound stage a bit and improved the sound. I remember better treble in the past. I understand that my own hearing has gone down a bit over the years, but, hey, the tweeter is $185 a piece, so maybe I can get another decade out of these speakers.
Not a bad deal right?
I think the diaphragm material also matters (along with brutality) when it comes to compression drivers. I remember having read somewhere that aluminium and phenolic resin have some ageing issues, no idea about titanium, beryllium etc.
However, I think compression drivers (when compared to cone speakers) are easier to open, clean (of dust, bugs etc.), repair (diaphragm change) and put back together.
However, I think compression drivers (when compared to cone speakers) are easier to open, clean (of dust, bugs etc.), repair (diaphragm change) and put back together.
Had trouble recollecting, but that was from the Klipsch forum, link below:
https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/78009-life-span-of-phenolic-diaphragms/
No idea (yet) about titanium. However, neodymium magnets can lose strength (BL factor) if the temperature of the voice coils rise close to 100*C. Do note that this is not even remotely close to the Curie temperature (~300*C).
Here's some authentic information about loudspeaker degradation from Klippel. This paper mostly discusses only mechanical (suspension) ageing.
https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/klippel/Bilder/Know-How/Literature/Papers/Aging of loudspeaker suspension_Klippel.pdf
Here's some authentic information about loudspeaker degradation from Klippel. This paper mostly discusses only mechanical (suspension) ageing.
https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/klippel/Bilder/Know-How/Literature/Papers/Aging of loudspeaker suspension_Klippel.pdf
I bought some cheap, secondhand Eminence delta 10a midbass drivers off eBay to experiment with (cone modifications). Compared to my newish delta 10a the suspension was quite obviously a lot softer when I pushed the driver with my hand, so I measured it with my DATS and found VAS had risen considerably, and QES was a lot lower.
Now it would be interesting to see what a simulator tells you when you use the original and the well-worn parameters with the same tuning. 😉
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
I did simulate the worn driver but can't remember the results. I'll dig it out and report back...
Interesting indeed (thanks to fatmarley), but since a proper system would have enough headroom to equalise small discrepancies, is it really worth replacing / repairing such drivers, like the OP has asked?
Also, the Eminence's previous application should give an idea about what kind of stress it takes to cause noticeable changes in parameters / performance and/or accelerated ageing.
Also, the Eminence's previous application should give an idea about what kind of stress it takes to cause noticeable changes in parameters / performance and/or accelerated ageing.
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A roughly 2db difference is a large difference over such a wide bandwidth. But we don't know if the OPs drivers have changed, and without measuring, we won't know.
Interestingly, old cloth surrounds on Tannoys are known to go stiff, so you end up with the opposite problem
I had the same problem with Spendor. Nothing lasts forever. I'm not quite sure but I think that magnets are also loosing it's strength with time and use (but someone can correct me on that as I'm not sure).
Yes, compensating -2dB requires almost double power, which could be a problem in professional applications (voice coil heating, power compression etc.). The OP's application seems to be home audio (minimal stresses) and thus there's still the possibility that the drivers may not have changed so much.
piotr z said:
It's said that they do that, but over very long periods of time (like 500 years etc), much like radioactivity. However, any loss in strength due to rise in temperature is usually temporary and reversible.