Don’t know about the 606, the QUAD 405 is one of the worst amps i have heard.
I know that there are a number of threads on the tech, don’t know if anyone has built current dumping amps that are decent quality.
A good chip amp will smoke the 303 (after doing that comparison i quite butying them… i do love the way it looks.
TLS.org | Quad 303 monobloks
dave
Speaking of chip amps, the Neurochrome Modulus series are well worth consideration for someone not afraid of a little DIY amp building. While I mentioned above using Class D amps in HT 7.1 system, I love my Modulus 286 (65w@8 ohms) in upstairs rig, but even the single chip models (86 or 186 - 40w @ 8ohms) would in my estimation outperform the 303.
That said, I couldn’t agree more with Dave as to the mid ‘60s aesthetics of the Quad. FWIW, I also owned a 405 for a few months in the mid/late ‘70s, and I’ll be polite and note that Yamaha CA1000 or dual Bryson 2B in mono mode ate its lunch.
That said, I couldn’t agree more with Dave as to the mid ‘60s aesthetics of the Quad. FWIW, I also owned a 405 for a few months in the mid/late ‘70s, and I’ll be polite and note that Yamaha CA1000 or dual Bryson 2B in mono mode ate its lunch.
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The original Bryston 2B was not up to the same quality as 3B or 4B.
The chip amp that i compared to the 303 is likely quite comparable to Tom’s Neurochrome. He knows what he is doing.
dave
The chip amp that i compared to the 303 is likely quite comparable to Tom’s Neurochrome. He knows what he is doing.
dave
Ah yes, the golden decade from late ‘70s to mid ‘80s of working in audio retail. It’s probably a good thing I never kept detailed records of all the combinations of gear I heard in the shops or went through in my own systems, but some certainly left fond memories. Single most atrocious I recall was the AGI511 pre-amp and mono Bryston 2B, followed closely by the Crown IC150 and DC300; although driving stacked Bose 911s the latter made for a great high school sock hop PA.
Back to the present, any of the current MA metal cones A10.3, A11MS, Pluvia 11- or for those with deeper pockets the MAOP11- would make for compelling candidates, and all have an extensive catalog of designs by folks like Scott Lindgren, Dave Dlugos, Jim Griffin, and others I’ve probably overlooked.
As for amps, there is an embarrassment of riches to choose from; depending on required functionality and desire to streamline number of boxes and interconnects.
Says the guy with 5 channels of outboard amps and 4 source components in his “small” home theatre system 😱
Back to the present, any of the current MA metal cones A10.3, A11MS, Pluvia 11- or for those with deeper pockets the MAOP11- would make for compelling candidates, and all have an extensive catalog of designs by folks like Scott Lindgren, Dave Dlugos, Jim Griffin, and others I’ve probably overlooked.
As for amps, there is an embarrassment of riches to choose from; depending on required functionality and desire to streamline number of boxes and interconnects.
Says the guy with 5 channels of outboard amps and 4 source components in his “small” home theatre system 😱
Those Neurochrome amps are a bit expensive for what they are i think. They are probally very good, but those prices are way to high. For the price of a 186 module you can get a Ncore kit also that is way more powerfull, or a few Ice Power amp modules, or a ACA kit if you want colouration in your sound (but low power).
If i would buy a vintage amp for this, i would probally buy a Marantz 1050 or a Sansui AU888 (if i can find one cheap enough). A Nad 3045 (the original 1970's version, not the actual) is also great.
If i would buy a vintage amp for this, i would probally buy a Marantz 1050 or a Sansui AU888 (if i can find one cheap enough). A Nad 3045 (the original 1970's version, not the actual) is also great.
As for “vintage” amps, I’d look for any of the original Yamaha CA or CR series; as classic as the aesthetics of the contemporaneous Marantz models were, I found them sonically a bit too “warm and fuzzy” for my taste. The only Marantz pieces I’ve heard in the last 10yrs have been surround receivers, and frankly they didn’t immediately distinguish themselves over the several Denon or Onkyo AVRs I’ve owned.
Yes, class D amps can be far more efficient in terms of watt per dollar, but sometimes that’s not the only metric. I find the Modulus to deliver more finely grained low level harmonic detail and depth than either the Hypex or ICE.
These amps are employed in two quite different systems; when watching movies / music videos on the big screen, I find the focus on the visual helps swamp whatever deficiencies the audio portion of my system would have according to serious “Audioholic” standards, that I couldn’t possibly afford to remedy.
Dobson; sometimes one finds themselves in a chicken / egg situation when contemplating a system upgrade, and the dearth of bricks and motor retail emporiums in which you can audition combinations of candidates certainly makes things harder. Any opportunity of which you can avail yourself to hear other systems, or borrow different amps to try in your own would be well worth the shoe leather. That said, I’ll stand by the recommendation for drivers and enclosure designs noted above.
Yes, class D amps can be far more efficient in terms of watt per dollar, but sometimes that’s not the only metric. I find the Modulus to deliver more finely grained low level harmonic detail and depth than either the Hypex or ICE.
These amps are employed in two quite different systems; when watching movies / music videos on the big screen, I find the focus on the visual helps swamp whatever deficiencies the audio portion of my system would have according to serious “Audioholic” standards, that I couldn’t possibly afford to remedy.
Dobson; sometimes one finds themselves in a chicken / egg situation when contemplating a system upgrade, and the dearth of bricks and motor retail emporiums in which you can audition combinations of candidates certainly makes things harder. Any opportunity of which you can avail yourself to hear other systems, or borrow different amps to try in your own would be well worth the shoe leather. That said, I’ll stand by the recommendation for drivers and enclosure designs noted above.
Marantz surround amps are not that good, it's the PM series that is good. It's with a lot of brands like that, as they need to put a lot of stuff in it, and pay a lot of copyrights on systems for surround (dolby and so) they cut corners on the core, the amplifier module. Denon and Onkyo do the same btw. Their stereo amp does not have those things, so they can do it right within budget. And Marantz and Yamaha do that today, Denon i don't know, Onkyo is not that good anymore i think.
And i also prefer class A or AB over classs D, but still think that module is way overpriced. Good modules with LM chips at that power can be found for 1/3th of the price, and medicore even way cheaper...
What i will say about vintage amps: Few of them will compete with good modern amplifiers, the ones that do have often been heavily worked over.
NAD is one that i think has stood the test of time, sonically, not reliability.
dave
NAD is one that i think has stood the test of time, sonically, not reliability.
dave
Ok, this thread has got a little derailed, once I've built these speakers I'll will look into power amps - but really I'd be more open to suggestions for Power Amps rather than integrated amps because I have zero intention of getting rid of my Croft Super Micro preamp - unless that's supposed to be crap too?
I am also not a huge fan of anything with too many buttons and knobs on it, give me a simple design over something complex. Something I do like about the Quad amps and that of course lends itself to that utilitarian aesthetic too. (Also why I drawn to the full range driver based systems).
On the subject of Speakers I think I am now going to go with Pensil design with a Alpair 10.3. The thing I liked about the BIB was it's simplicity and if anything the Pensil is even more simple so I have happy to give it a go 🙂
I am also not a huge fan of anything with too many buttons and knobs on it, give me a simple design over something complex. Something I do like about the Quad amps and that of course lends itself to that utilitarian aesthetic too. (Also why I drawn to the full range driver based systems).
On the subject of Speakers I think I am now going to go with Pensil design with a Alpair 10.3. The thing I liked about the BIB was it's simplicity and if anything the Pensil is even more simple so I have happy to give it a go 🙂
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Power amps.
Any PASS designed amplifier (and derivatives by others),
Simple chip amps. Amazingly good.
Many Class A amplifiers. JHK, SEWA, Audio Nirvana...
Some Class AB amplifiers, this includes the largest selection. High’s AKSAs are an example.
A really good entry level is teh PASS ACA or the new ACA mini (i’ve not heard it yet, but i may)
dave
Any PASS designed amplifier (and derivatives by others),
Simple chip amps. Amazingly good.
Many Class A amplifiers. JHK, SEWA, Audio Nirvana...
Some Class AB amplifiers, this includes the largest selection. High’s AKSAs are an example.
A really good entry level is teh PASS ACA or the new ACA mini (i’ve not heard it yet, but i may)
dave
Dobson, I think you’ll be very satisfied with the Pensil10.3, but if you’ve got the time, I’d be inclined to complete the new speaker building before binning the Quad; you might find the new combo quite acceptable.
That said, if / when you do decide to upgrade there, do you have a budget in mind? I’ll certainly agree with waxx that there are far cheaper 3886 products available, but I’m not so sure he’s heard any of Tom’s. Before this thread gets more entrenched in a tangential debate, I’ll just say that not all designs using the same output devices sound the same.
The ACA is a delight little piece, and considering that the cost of a decent presentable chassis can easily be half the total project, the full kit is quite reasonably priced; but power from a single stereo build might be a little low for some.
That said, if / when you do decide to upgrade there, do you have a budget in mind? I’ll certainly agree with waxx that there are far cheaper 3886 products available, but I’m not so sure he’s heard any of Tom’s. Before this thread gets more entrenched in a tangential debate, I’ll just say that not all designs using the same output devices sound the same.
The ACA is a delight little piece, and considering that the cost of a decent presentable chassis can easily be half the total project, the full kit is quite reasonably priced; but power from a single stereo build might be a little low for some.
Yep, what Chris & Jeff suggest. One step at a time. You need to hear what the QUAD does, so you can appreciate (and compare) other amplifiers.
dave
dave
Thank you everyone for yours advice, and don't worry, I am not rushing into any of this (hence my research now). I'll complete the speakers long before I even think about altering my Amp setup.
I want to be able to appreciate all of the steps along the way.
I'll make a new thread about Amps when I get there 🙂
Cheers
The Pencil is indeed a good design, and easy to make. And you will discover yourself when you use the 303 why we want to change your amp. But start with the speaker and hear yourself...
The Quad 405 had so many clones it would be hard to count. It could be sounding bad as the first ones had LM301 in the input stage, which was of course a solution that was good only before much better op-amps were available. Second problem was the emitter capacitor, the 1nF or something, that needed to be very clean, like a polypropylene or something, and the last point I did in my simulations: some of the coefficients were much better after some adjustment way out of the original values, and after that, distortion went to near zero (to that of the A stage)
The trick with quad is: it's adjustible, unlike many other amps. You can create this quad concept out of any combination of amplifiers, you just need to adjust the feedback-feedforward to the lowest distortion, and it's done.
For those barely willing to dip their toes into the ”DIY” ( I find myself needing to use that term cautiously these days) amp construction / assembly pool, I suspect anything deeper than the kiddie pool end would be daunting to start. Of my last half dozen or so amp projects, the ACA was by far the easiest and lowest cost build, even a pair for monoblock use would have a lower price than either of the class D builds listed. All that said, the Modulus would be the last piece I’d let go.