I think you are right.
The more expensive speaker systems, either voltage or partly current driven, have never been very succesfull because of lesser flexibility and costs penalty.
But quite some Bluetooth and Wifi speakers are being used nowadays in the lower audio segment.
I never thought an iPhone could replace a full frame camera, but performance is getting closer and closer, so maybe those Bluetooth and Wifi speakers are also getting better and better with the help of Purify.
Hans
The more expensive speaker systems, either voltage or partly current driven, have never been very succesfull because of lesser flexibility and costs penalty.
But quite some Bluetooth and Wifi speakers are being used nowadays in the lower audio segment.
I never thought an iPhone could replace a full frame camera, but performance is getting closer and closer, so maybe those Bluetooth and Wifi speakers are also getting better and better with the help of Purify.
Hans
Thanks, Bill. See they didn't bother with DBT 🙂
Also, some interesting sound examples at a couple of their reference links given at the end of the article. Hope the differences are audible to everyone 😉
I thought you might spot that. I've not listened to the examples of doppler vs AM so cannot confirm if they are as obvious as they claim. I know the Purifi guys are selling somethings as well as being really clever but they seem* to have made some significant steps forward in their smaller drive units.
*Note I'm not necessarily knowledgable enough in speaker matters to confirm this 😀
*Note I'm not necessarily knowledgable enough in speaker matters to confirm this 😀
Bruno seems to be shining a light on mechanisms which seem to have been overlooked, but I do not claim to have an encyclopedic knowledge of what driver manufacturers have known in the past. My own experience with current drive shows a more moderate reduction in distortion (likely driver dependent), but the most striking aspect is the sharpening of imaging.
AFAIK the top studio monitor speakers are still all V drive, although there is a mix of class AB and D amplification. Also, some like ATC are still doing analog crossover and eq.. In the high-end hifi world, small as it is, some people still believe in euphonically mixing and matching of amp and speakers, although this is a pretty brain-dead way of equalizing a system. This of course makes an active monitor a non-starter for these folks.
But my experience with current offerings is limited to a handful of brands specified by the design firm I work for. BTW, the new Neumann KH 420 + DIM 1 NFM sounds fantastic for it's price!
Cheers!
Howie
>some people still believe in euphonically mixing and matching of amp and speakers ... This of course makes an active monitor a non-starter...
Still? Back in the 70's Phillips came out with their "motional feedback" speakers and I wanted a set so bad when I was a teen. To this day, I've never seen a set for real, nevermind heard one. I've chance-encountered (and purchased) a set of LS3/5As - but never a "22RH541"...
Thanks, mix and match crowd; you snuffed it completely by the 80's.
Still? Back in the 70's Phillips came out with their "motional feedback" speakers and I wanted a set so bad when I was a teen. To this day, I've never seen a set for real, nevermind heard one. I've chance-encountered (and purchased) a set of LS3/5As - but never a "22RH541"...
Thanks, mix and match crowd; you snuffed it completely by the 80's.
Smaller drivers that need to work hard seem to be the more susceptible here. Larger drivers still have their uses for other reasons, where they are not a problem.. as suggested this could be aimed at emerging markets.
The article seems to suggest that current drive would not make a difference with one of these designs, and that it can make a difference on a traditional design short of fixing it. It may need to be said that everything is relative...
The article seems to suggest that current drive would not make a difference with one of these designs, and that it can make a difference on a traditional design short of fixing it. It may need to be said that everything is relative...
Hi Allen,
Fully agree that if you have the space for Cal sized speakers in a domestic environment then big and short stroke has a lot going for it. For those of us limited in space and with small destructive things running around we have different trade offs.
But 15dB distortion reduction seems to be worth having, esp if it means you can use a £50 driver instead of a £500 driver (a pair of volt VM752 retail at over £1000).
Too many compromises with speakers. My head hurts...
@Howie @£7000 a pair for the KH420 it ought to sound good!
Fully agree that if you have the space for Cal sized speakers in a domestic environment then big and short stroke has a lot going for it. For those of us limited in space and with small destructive things running around we have different trade offs.
But 15dB distortion reduction seems to be worth having, esp if it means you can use a £50 driver instead of a £500 driver (a pair of volt VM752 retail at over £1000).
Too many compromises with speakers. My head hurts...
@Howie @£7000 a pair for the KH420 it ought to sound good!
Yes, well the directivity control a larger unit can offer would be more appreciated in a smaller room.. and the omnidirectional bass from a small baffle on a handheld device used in an open space puts demands on a (tiny) driver.
Just saying, the distinction is there.
Just saying, the distinction is there.
Considering the Neumann heritage and it's SQ, and then the fact that the KH 420 at $10k is less than the cost of the competing ATC at over $17k...it is a good deal.
I would wager that the quantity of speakers sold by studio monitor people like Neumann, ATC, G&S, etc is 1/4 or less that of even the smallest of high-end manufacturers. The overhead is spread over far fewer units sold, and I think this is why in 2013 ATC decided to sell home hifi speakers. I do love the sound of their 75 mm midrange dome driver, but when they decided to stop selling drivers to competitors, Volt filled the vacuum with a really excellent 75 mm dome mid which many now use. As you point out both of these drivers are incredibly expensive...
My personal feeling is as good as they are, ATC has too high a regard for their own product and their pricing is out of whack...and their electronics have given us a bit of trouble which their US distributor has not been fast to resolve...leaving me to deal with pissed off customers which I do not appreciate. When you have to sell a customer a second $$ pair of speakers because their primaries keep screwing up, it does not engender good relationships.
Cheers!
Howie
Speaking of reliable professional audio equipment, I want to give credit to Jack Williams and the team of engineers at Pacific Recorders & Engineering. I have two of their BMX-II on-air consoles which have been running for over 30 years 24/7 with no major failures.
The circuit design was SOA for late 1980s, with P&G faders, JE990 discrete opamps, Jensen transformers, and yes a sprinkling of 5534s throughout, but after 30+ years they still spec out as new.
I am posting this since I just had to recap the PS in one for the first time since 1988. The PS itself is a 4 RU high steel chassis with big Sprague screw-terminal chassis mount caps. While doing it I wondered at how reliable these consoles have been... OK, over 33 years I've cleaned cola (or something) out of a few faders, replaced a few plug-in relays and sprayed Cramolin in some switches...if only all equipment was this reliable...
Cheers!
Howie
The circuit design was SOA for late 1980s, with P&G faders, JE990 discrete opamps, Jensen transformers, and yes a sprinkling of 5534s throughout, but after 30+ years they still spec out as new.
I am posting this since I just had to recap the PS in one for the first time since 1988. The PS itself is a 4 RU high steel chassis with big Sprague screw-terminal chassis mount caps. While doing it I wondered at how reliable these consoles have been... OK, over 33 years I've cleaned cola (or something) out of a few faders, replaced a few plug-in relays and sprayed Cramolin in some switches...if only all equipment was this reliable...
Cheers!
Howie
I was auditioning ATC speakers in hifi shops in 1990 in UK. The bonkers domestic SCM300 did come later though.
I have always wondered with ATC if they are resting on laurels or 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' as their main monitors are unchanged since the SL drivers came in the early 90s until they designed their own tweeter a couple of years ago.
I have always wondered with ATC if they are resting on laurels or 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' as their main monitors are unchanged since the SL drivers came in the early 90s until they designed their own tweeter a couple of years ago.
"I was auditioning ATC speakers in hifi shops in 1990 in UK. The bonkers domestic SCM300 did come later though."
Ahhh so maybe the US rep was referring to when the hifi speakers came to the USA...
The ATCs with that 75 mm dome mid are great sounding speakers to be sure...perhaps a bit long in the tooth, but the fact that they have remained viable speaks to their performance. Other brands are giving them a good run for the money nowadays...
Cheers,
Howie
Ahhh so maybe the US rep was referring to when the hifi speakers came to the USA...
The ATCs with that 75 mm dome mid are great sounding speakers to be sure...perhaps a bit long in the tooth, but the fact that they have remained viable speaks to their performance. Other brands are giving them a good run for the money nowadays...
Cheers,
Howie
I heard the big PMC studio monitors at a customers a few months ago and the ATC’s at the NWA show a few yrs ago.
Both very expensive of course and enormous doesn’t begin to describe it!
Both very expensive of course and enormous doesn’t begin to describe it!
I've only heard the 100As. I am sure Howie can attest that 4 15" woofers backed with over 1000W of bass amps can move a 'lot' of air in a studio 🙂
It’s really amazing that a company like ATC can be so successful with apparently no marketing, despite being far from affordable.
Although highly interested for more than 50 years in the Audio industry, I never heard their name before.
Hans
Although highly interested for more than 50 years in the Audio industry, I never heard their name before.
Hans
Yes Bill, also such a British super product 😀
But ESL’s can’t reproduce earthquakes like ATC can seemingly do without any noticeable distortion.
And ATC’s can even outperform Wilson speakers, amazingly.
Hans
But ESL’s can’t reproduce earthquakes like ATC can seemingly do without any noticeable distortion.
And ATC’s can even outperform Wilson speakers, amazingly.
Hans
Prism Sound at British Grove | The Ear A full 7.1 channel ATC setup. I hate to think how many £££ were spent on that one room. I wont comment on all the old racks of dolby processors...