Hello,Guys🙂
I am a newbie to diy audio. I started my audio life last year. I purchased a pair of W3-1878 to build my first speakers and asked my father to build a amp for me. He built a JLH 1969 int. amp for me and I started to enjoy my music. I built up a raspberry pi streamer with 9038dac hat and picoreplayer for tidal. It is a good experience to me to enjoy the music. However, I have heard another system this few week and it is surprising me. I heard a same song which is a Japanese female vocal but it was more balance and more low frequency compared with my system. Thus, I want to upgrade my system. In my limited budget, I would like to upgrade my speaker first and there are two ideas.
First, I would like to purchase another pair of speaker. My budget is around HKD 3000 and I am looking for a 2nd hand speaker in Hong Kong. I found the monitor audio gold MA700 mkII and Tannoy oxford on the 2nd hand market which are closed to my budget but I had no experience to these two. In the meanwhile, Tannoy is too large for my limited area.
Thus, my second idea is to upgrade my speaker into a 3-way bookshelf speaker. I would like to use my w3-1878 as mid-range driver and purchase another tweeters and woofers. In my view, 5” woofer is the max. size of my home.
Therefore, which option is better? If I build a new 3-way speaker, which tweeter and woofer are the highest C/P for me? Thank you so much.
I am a newbie to diy audio. I started my audio life last year. I purchased a pair of W3-1878 to build my first speakers and asked my father to build a amp for me. He built a JLH 1969 int. amp for me and I started to enjoy my music. I built up a raspberry pi streamer with 9038dac hat and picoreplayer for tidal. It is a good experience to me to enjoy the music. However, I have heard another system this few week and it is surprising me. I heard a same song which is a Japanese female vocal but it was more balance and more low frequency compared with my system. Thus, I want to upgrade my system. In my limited budget, I would like to upgrade my speaker first and there are two ideas.
First, I would like to purchase another pair of speaker. My budget is around HKD 3000 and I am looking for a 2nd hand speaker in Hong Kong. I found the monitor audio gold MA700 mkII and Tannoy oxford on the 2nd hand market which are closed to my budget but I had no experience to these two. In the meanwhile, Tannoy is too large for my limited area.
Thus, my second idea is to upgrade my speaker into a 3-way bookshelf speaker. I would like to use my w3-1878 as mid-range driver and purchase another tweeters and woofers. In my view, 5” woofer is the max. size of my home.
Therefore, which option is better? If I build a new 3-way speaker, which tweeter and woofer are the highest C/P for me? Thank you so much.
Execution is critical. There is no right answer to your question.
What about a good 1-way system?
dave
What about a good 1-way system?
dave
If you like the sound of the MA or Tannoy then go that way.
If you want to play around with your W3-1878 then a 3-way with a 5" woofer is a waste IMO. If you want to keep the driver and happy with the mid and top end, then build what they call a FAST or WAW where you just add a woofer to the existing driver in a new box with a xo between 400-600Hz to suit. Use a woofer like the SB13PFC, SB16PFC, SB15MFC etc and head over to the Full range forum for more details of this type of speaker. This way you keep your driver and it's not too expensive to try.
If you want to play around with your W3-1878 then a 3-way with a 5" woofer is a waste IMO. If you want to keep the driver and happy with the mid and top end, then build what they call a FAST or WAW where you just add a woofer to the existing driver in a new box with a xo between 400-600Hz to suit. Use a woofer like the SB13PFC, SB16PFC, SB15MFC etc and head over to the Full range forum for more details of this type of speaker. This way you keep your driver and it's not too expensive to try.
In the beginning, I would like to find a pair of speakers small in size and low cost. Therefore, i purchase W3-1878 and a back-horned box for DIY.
I am satisfied to this set of speaker before the comparison. Thus, i would like to make or purchase a multi-way speaker at this time.
That is what i concerned. I don't want to make it to be a waste. It seems like to make another 2-way or 3-way speakers will be better. What tweeter you recommend to match with SB13PFC? thank you
I looked it up. picoreplayer has an equaliser built in.
Both of your upgrade options are probably fine, but I'd suggest working with what you have, first.
The cheapest upgrade is free.
Enable the EQ and see whether you can "fix" how your system sounds.
If (for example) you like the sound of a +5dB bass boost, but the 3" driver is too small to handle this boost at the loudness level you want, that information will help guide your upgrade choice.
Also, if you give more info about your listening space, current build (ported, sealed, size) etc, people can give better advice.
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No matter which way you go, the first purchase I'd suggest is a measurement microphone.
This one, plus the app you'll need, will cost about 5% of your budget, and using it will be a lot better than guesswork.
Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for Tablets iPhone iPad and Android
IMO or IME, why? Are you in the 1"+8"+15"++ league? I have no doubt that the 'dynamics and effortless sound' that the
system would produce
would be sentational, stupendous
But my findings about 3 way-little systems might suggest otherwise....
Don't forget the most important part of a design of a loudspeaker [the heart]:
the crossover.
my listening area is around 80ft2. The current build is back horned design cabinet as the attachment. It is a good idea for me to adjust the bass from the raspberry pi.
What is the accuracy of measurement microphone? i seldom consider about the measurement since i don't have any acoustic panel in my flat.
If it is low accuracy, it can't be a reference to further develop.
Sure. that's why i would like to build a multi-way speaker this time.
What is the accuracy of measurement microphone? i seldom consider about the measurement since i don't have any acoustic panel in my flat.
If it is low accuracy, it can't be a reference to further develop.
Sure. that's why i would like to build a multi-way speaker this time.
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"If you do not build these speakers you will regret it. Maybe not today, Maybe not tomorrow, But soon and for the rest of your life."
Popular SB_Acoustics aluminum cone drivers are praised for clean, detailed sound. BUT... You will need a 0.5-0.7 cuft ported cabinet to get bass.
$77 SB17NBAC35 6.5" aluminum cone midbass
4-ohm if you amp can drive, or 8-ohm for weak amps.
$55 SB26ADC-4 1" aluminum dome tweetern 4-ohm
You will find proven designs on the internet...based upon your cabinet goals and "ear"
example 14.17" tall x 7.87" wide x 12.28" deep
0.5 cf3 with a 2" x 6" straight vent or 2" x 7 " Flared Port Tube Kit for an F3 of 44Hz
Popular SB_Acoustics aluminum cone drivers are praised for clean, detailed sound. BUT... You will need a 0.5-0.7 cuft ported cabinet to get bass.
$77 SB17NBAC35 6.5" aluminum cone midbass
4-ohm if you amp can drive, or 8-ohm for weak amps.
$55 SB26ADC-4 1" aluminum dome tweetern 4-ohm
You will find proven designs on the internet...based upon your cabinet goals and "ear"
example 14.17" tall x 7.87" wide x 12.28" deep
0.5 cf3 with a 2" x 6" straight vent or 2" x 7 " Flared Port Tube Kit for an F3 of 44Hz
"What is the accuracy of measurement microphone?"
The microphone is fairly accurate to start with, and it comes with a calibration file which corrects what errors there are. That is: if you buy a mic that is -0.8dB at 10,000 Hz, the calibration file adds that amount to measurements.
"If it is low accuracy, it can't be a reference to further develop."
A typical speaker+room interaction will create 15dB peaks and dips in the bass *. A bad cabinet / design can have a similarly huge effect.
Compared to that, a measurement error of less than 1dB is trivial.
*example measurements shown in this article
Data-Bass: Subwoofer Measurements
The microphone is fairly accurate to start with, and it comes with a calibration file which corrects what errors there are. That is: if you buy a mic that is -0.8dB at 10,000 Hz, the calibration file adds that amount to measurements.
"If it is low accuracy, it can't be a reference to further develop."
A typical speaker+room interaction will create 15dB peaks and dips in the bass *. A bad cabinet / design can have a similarly huge effect.
Compared to that, a measurement error of less than 1dB is trivial.
*example measurements shown in this article
Data-Bass: Subwoofer Measurements
Not at all and not my thing but have done a 1"+6"+8". Gave away all my large speakers as no longer had the need for them. Spent the last few years on micro speakers under 5 litres. I can't see an advantage of a 5" 3-way over a 4"-5" 2-way with it's added xo complexity. Doing a 3-way xo is magnitudes harder than a 2-way.
Rasple's room is only 7.43m² so only a small speaker is required. Adding a small subwoofer to the existing speaker would give it a nice boost in the lower end and body as 2.1 systems can work well. A proven 2-way design would also be an option and Jeff Bagby's Soprano springs to mind.
Various loudspeaker design suggestions
LineSource's suggestion has merit as I have a SB26ADC + SB17NAC in 18 litres vented and it's a great performer and prefer it to my Satori build which is now gone.
SB Acoustics uses SB19ST-C000-4 with their Micro kits which would also work with the SB13PFC.
If you are really into this and you will spend (the equivalent of) more than $500 on loudspeakers and are in possession of a computer, get a measuring equipment set. If you are going to develop passive crossovers (caps and coils), you will have to measure impedance too. The little Dayton mikes for mobile devices are wonderful, but you won't be quite there yet.
Phewww, I thought you were in that league!
🙄
Nevertheless, I'm here to state that the second part of your sentence might not be 'true', as I find most difficult to set a crossover point in the 2-3 kHz region than 5 kHz and above, like in 3 way speakers ( it may vary).
Well, you'd say at this point, that i would spread the errors of an incorrect x-over in one point ( region) to two errors in mid-band and treble when using a 3 way.
Either way, the sensation of a 3 way for me outperforms any 2 way, because it's how it has to be done: bass, mid and tweeter !
and yes, minimal CTC distance and little drivers make the whole more acceptable
someone tried a FAST with the Tang Band W3-1878
try Google Translate
Ennokins FaST, Projekte der Nutzer / Eigenentwicklungen - HIFI-FORUM
try Google Translate
Ennokins FaST, Projekte der Nutzer / Eigenentwicklungen - HIFI-FORUM
If you have artistic gifts.... Consider constructing a musical front baffle which does not look like CR*AP.
A BW3 circuit on the tweeter, and a LR4 circuit on the midbass produce good phase alignment with a 1,900 - 2,00Hz crossovover frequency. Troels Galvensen selected these circuits for his NAC-61 speaker. (which uses a stepped baffle which looks "noisey")
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If you want to do lots of tweaking with before and after comparisons, a USB microphone is indeed much better & easier.
However, even if you own a USB mic, the combo of AudioTool + phone mic does have some niche uses; it is good for taking averages.
Recording an averaged frequency response, while moving the mic over a small listening arc, gets a more usable in-listening-room reading than with a fixed mic position - grabbing an average over a small arc helps make the room "disappear".