I have never seen an SB, but a friend has found that their products can be quite good or quite bad.
dave
I've used the SB16PFC-8, very nice sound and build quality looks good: odd frame shape, but the new version is round. Polymer frame but feels solid enough.
In Oz it's about $5 more than the Peerless SDS series, but has a more solid build and more Xmax. Haven't tried SB tweeters.
Geoff
In Oz it's about $5 more than the Peerless SDS series, but has a more solid build and more Xmax. Haven't tried SB tweeters.
Geoff
In the past I've used Scanspeak, Dynaudio, Vifa, Peerless and many others. Now it's mostly SBA for me because of the price to performance ratio these drivers offer. The best SBA drivers are difficult to beat at any price point.
sorry to say being a user of Scanspeak, vifa, sb acoustics, eminence etc. In my life the worst drivers and most hyped are the sb acoustics. The problem is that their structural engineering is good but the sound quality is very muddy in mid bass drivers. Woofers dont have proper damping. HF is not smooth and non fatigueing. Everything in their range is harsh and muddy. I dont want a driver which measures good but sound bad.
Looking towards better ones scanspeaks are light years ahead no comparison at all. Dont believe me build the two speakers with scanspeak and sb acoustics and test yourself.
Well the measurements of the standard range show very ordinary mid-bass performance, and the poly cone aren’t flat and smooth like traditional poly eg. Vifa. I’m sure one could get it to sound satisfactory or even good if extra attention was given to the crossover.
I guess some like the build quality or is it just big/thick and overbuilt-
Flange unnecessarily thick; basket windows not very large- frame/basket so thick.
I’d rather more cone less magnet/frame/basket.
After some measurements from Erin’s audio corner from the latest and greatest standard range SB17CAC-4 left me wondering - what’s good or great about this driver?
The midrange- 250Hz to 2Khz.
But then the sensitivity isn’t great. If I wanted a midrange it ; would be even better with a shorter voice coil and thinner/flatter or foam surround.
I’ve got a MW13P and I do think highly of this driver- 7L; Fb 55Hz; smooth and flat out past even 2 octaves past typical crossover point.
I do have a NBAC30-8 and can’t comment on the sound of - still trying to make up my mind about it a) needs a 12-14 cabinet b) I’ve only prototyped the passive crossover; electrical LR4 or LR2/3 with notch filters. I probably need a different workflow/process if I were a speaker designer to audition different crossover types digital/DSP to move forward; rather than building 2-3 crossovers and taking months to refine them….
I guess some like the build quality or is it just big/thick and overbuilt-
Flange unnecessarily thick; basket windows not very large- frame/basket so thick.
I’d rather more cone less magnet/frame/basket.
After some measurements from Erin’s audio corner from the latest and greatest standard range SB17CAC-4 left me wondering - what’s good or great about this driver?
The midrange- 250Hz to 2Khz.
But then the sensitivity isn’t great. If I wanted a midrange it ; would be even better with a shorter voice coil and thinner/flatter or foam surround.
I’ve got a MW13P and I do think highly of this driver- 7L; Fb 55Hz; smooth and flat out past even 2 octaves past typical crossover point.
I do have a NBAC30-8 and can’t comment on the sound of - still trying to make up my mind about it a) needs a 12-14 cabinet b) I’ve only prototyped the passive crossover; electrical LR4 or LR2/3 with notch filters. I probably need a different workflow/process if I were a speaker designer to audition different crossover types digital/DSP to move forward; rather than building 2-3 crossovers and taking months to refine them….
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I believe you.
Want to write again: "I'm not the best audiophile".
I also find SB to be "muddy".
Specs and testing make me think this is the case also.
ScanSpeak 5 inch Illuminator is very good.
Plays well quiet, loud, high and low (wide range of SPL and FR).
At the moment I play with a Seas DXT, Dayton RS125 and two SB23NRX - with 4 subwoofers with Peerless XXLS 830952.
I can't find a real reason to change any of the drivers - because, how would it be better - what would be better?
All brands have their goldmedal drivers and their crap drivers - for different usages. I do not think we can say that any driver is bad or good, unless we really specify precisely how it's going to be used.
Most soft cone/dome driver, is to me a compromise to make it easier for passive design. I rarely see a driver mentioned as being better for an active solution - with respect to the possibility in modern DSP solutions.
The Textreme is the only driver that maybe deliver something special that might balance out the much higher price. Could be fun to see a Satori motor design with the CAC cone.
I cross my RS215 at 2kHz - it has a breakup at almost 10kHz - why worry about the breakup? On the paper drivers, the breakup is always within passband and off-axis mostly suffer. Dutch & Dutch 8C, Kii3, Revel among others super well measuring and playing speakers... all use hard cone/dome drivers - not even expensive drivers. Maybe - just maybe, implementation is way more important than some other factors. I do get that certain drivers needs to be of certain materials, to cope with certain weather conditions - like salty air and moisture. But this should be doable anyway.
I can't find a real reason to change any of the drivers - because, how would it be better - what would be better?
All brands have their goldmedal drivers and their crap drivers - for different usages. I do not think we can say that any driver is bad or good, unless we really specify precisely how it's going to be used.
Most soft cone/dome driver, is to me a compromise to make it easier for passive design. I rarely see a driver mentioned as being better for an active solution - with respect to the possibility in modern DSP solutions.
The Textreme is the only driver that maybe deliver something special that might balance out the much higher price. Could be fun to see a Satori motor design with the CAC cone.
I cross my RS215 at 2kHz - it has a breakup at almost 10kHz - why worry about the breakup? On the paper drivers, the breakup is always within passband and off-axis mostly suffer. Dutch & Dutch 8C, Kii3, Revel among others super well measuring and playing speakers... all use hard cone/dome drivers - not even expensive drivers. Maybe - just maybe, implementation is way more important than some other factors. I do get that certain drivers needs to be of certain materials, to cope with certain weather conditions - like salty air and moisture. But this should be doable anyway.
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Kii uses paper cone midrange:
Peerless by Tymphany FSL-0512R01-08 - 5.5" Woofer
I liked mids and highs of Kii much better than D&D8C
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Oh... I must have mistaken it with bass drivers, which I think I found evidence to be rather cheap alu drivers.
But this do make sense, since the data on the Peerless is really good as a midrange - real dedicated midrange, not any of the hundreds of bass/midrange driver around, trying to do everything at ones.
Not a builder…just a listener… nothing muddy about the Satori used in the Wilson or BAYZ speakers IMO.
Sound quality can be highly debated.
Build quality can be mildly debated.
SB acoustics is the best in the build quality for the price 😀
Pro woofers (drivers) make the most sense, if you can live with a large box:
- They are the most vastly tested/used
- Best built (this takes decades to perfect)
- Most durable
- Have the best parameters
- Can work in a vast range of environments
put side by side comparison with Revelator / illuminator vs satori you can clearly see whats lacking in satori
I just find paper drivers to lack fine detail and often sound a little veiled.
I also find the hard cones better when it comes to dispersion... and the breakup can usually be pushed way up.
I also find the hard cones better when it comes to dispersion... and the breakup can usually be pushed way up.
Do tell. I'd be fascinated to know what you think is lacking. I think the Satori drivers are superb.