62lbs
Vas 8ft3
Qts .31
Fs 29hz
21mm xmax
I'm thinking 6th order, boosted at fs=f9, but can't fit a port in 4ft3 box, pr would be pricy.
Or 1ft3 sealed linkwitz transform +12db at 40hz, +24db at 20hz
Vas 8ft3
Qts .31
Fs 29hz
21mm xmax
I'm thinking 6th order, boosted at fs=f9, but can't fit a port in 4ft3 box, pr would be pricy.
Or 1ft3 sealed linkwitz transform +12db at 40hz, +24db at 20hz
Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files - Bass Projects - Data-Bass Forums
Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files - Bass Projects - Data-Bass Forums
proven designs for these drivers for high output applications.
Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files - Bass Projects - Data-Bass Forums
proven designs for these drivers for high output applications.
Europe: Beyma 21PW1400Fe is 348£ at Bluearan or 380€ at TLHP, only 10mm xmax but you can get two of those instead.
Beyma : Beyma 21PW1400Fe :: PS347.88
Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY
Beyma : Beyma 21PW1400Fe :: PS347.88
Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY
Of course you can get more drivers for the same money. But thats not what most are after (with PA). The NSW along with the 21Ipal is currently the most capable PA driver out there and would give the most SPL out of a certain volume.
I get that, but most run more than 1 sub anyway, and you'd get more output and less distortion for the power running more membrane area instead of pushing more excursion.
Not a big loss IMO.
You can run a quad of 15" even cheaper but close to similar performance.
Not a big loss IMO.
You can run a quad of 15" even cheaper but close to similar performance.
Eventually it all has to be transported and thus fit in a certain volume.
Drivers like the NSW6021 or other hefty 21"/18"'s will still be the go to drivers.
I would even say the whole pro PA market has seen a shift with more 21" drivers being used instead of the conventional 18" drivers.
Drivers like the NSW6021 or other hefty 21"/18"'s will still be the go to drivers.
I would even say the whole pro PA market has seen a shift with more 21" drivers being used instead of the conventional 18" drivers.
Could well be. Most likely more people where you are. 18"s single or double is not uncommon here, some double 12" boxes, some double 15". Can't remember seeing a single 21" but I don't get out much these days.
Output density (SPL per litre) is important in PA. Using a driver with half the excursion means you need double the cabinets to achieve the same SPL.
By using high-end drivers and lots of power, you can cover the same audience with fewer cabinets - that's a Big Deal.
Chris
Understood.
Looked at the Eminence NSW6021 (3144w) vs the RCF LF21N451 (1158w) in the same box, 5db at 40hz in halfspace is a bit.
Edit:
The Lavoce SAF214.50 with 12,5mm xmax looks like a steal though, at 272€ it seems like a lot of bass for the cost-conscious.
Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY
Looked at the Eminence NSW6021 (3144w) vs the RCF LF21N451 (1158w) in the same box, 5db at 40hz in halfspace is a bit.
Edit:
The Lavoce SAF214.50 with 12,5mm xmax looks like a steal though, at 272€ it seems like a lot of bass for the cost-conscious.
Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY
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Just wondering.
Chris, how much power compression would you get running the NSW6021 full tilt? Just over 2db?
And I did try to increase port area and length but it didn't really help that much, there might be some issues there as well.
Chris, how much power compression would you get running the NSW6021 full tilt? Just over 2db?
And I did try to increase port area and length but it didn't really help that much, there might be some issues there as well.
Exactly, I've heard that B&C is also bringing out new models with more excursion.
The Lavoce offerings are nice for the money, I currently run 4 SAN214.50's in a modified Cubo Sub.
The Lavoce offerings are nice for the money, I currently run 4 SAN214.50's in a modified Cubo Sub.
Power compression is a complicated subject. It'll vary with a lot of different factors:
- Input signal power and duty cycle
- Which frequencies are happening
- Cabinet design - how much excursion can the driver perform? - That helps pump hot air out of the motor. However, that hot air must be exchanged with the outside world, or the cabinet internals will turn into an oven. The cabinet will also affect the impedance curve, which is (partly) where the frequency-dependent nature of power compression comes in.
- The size of the voice coil
- The ability of the voice coil to move heat to the motor structure
- The ability of the motor structure to get rid of that heat
- Ambient temp/wind/etc.
The worst I've experienced myself has been approx 6dB of compression. That was a pair of Fane Sov.Pro 12-500 drivers in ported boxes. The ports were arranged for convection cooling through the cabinet. The amp was a Behringer NU6000, running the drivers from 100Hz to 1kHz. Program material was live rock 'n' roll, so a reasonably large dynamic range. ie, while the amp might clip occasionally (it did), the average power delivery would've been lower.
After the band's set, I played some music and realised the mids were much quieter than they used to be. Put my hand into one of the ports, and the back of the magnet was hot to the touch. Since the levels were much reduced, I increased the mid level in the processor and found +6dB of gain was about right.
Hope that's useful.
Chris
Yes it is actually. Been thinking of getting a 3d printer to make ports that are more optimal for cooling.
6db is a lot though!
Edit:
Might actually be better to do double basic slot ports, above and below.
6db is a lot though!
Edit:
Might actually be better to do double basic slot ports, above and below.
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The voice coils must have been pretty hot, if the attached prediction is anywhere near the mark 🙂.
Attachments
Well, the 80oz ferrite magnet and surrounding steel got hot to the touch, so I wouldn't be surprised if the copper coil in the middle of it all was very hot indeed. The motor is a low-tech type: no demodulation, and a simple pole vent to keep things cool.
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/FANE-SOVEREIGN-PRO-12500-DS141117.pdf
Something that might've helped those Fane drivers would be if I'd run them down to 60Hz (for example), which would allow some excursion - that way, cool air could be pumped through the motor a bit.
I retired those Fane units shortly after that gig, replacing each 12" with 2x Faital 10FH520, each rated for 600w AES, and having a more advanced motor which seems to cope better with large power inputs. Of course, spreading the load across 2x voice coils will also improve things.
Chris
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/FANE-SOVEREIGN-PRO-12500-DS141117.pdf
Something that might've helped those Fane drivers would be if I'd run them down to 60Hz (for example), which would allow some excursion - that way, cool air could be pumped through the motor a bit.
I retired those Fane units shortly after that gig, replacing each 12" with 2x Faital 10FH520, each rated for 600w AES, and having a more advanced motor which seems to cope better with large power inputs. Of course, spreading the load across 2x voice coils will also improve things.
Chris
How does these tour grade eminence compared with Dayton Vortex 21"? Im thinking open baffle home use. Bad idea?
The NSW6021's motor structure has a lot of air noise at high excursions. That's intentional air turbulence for better cooling with high power inputs.
It would be possible to block or damp some of the vents for home use.
Any of these large woofers will work. The more the better for under 60hz. Whatever you have room for.
It would be possible to block or damp some of the vents for home use.
Any of these large woofers will work. The more the better for under 60hz. Whatever you have room for.
Just my opinion, no other 21" driver should even be a consideration with the NSW6021 at this price.