Dear tech-savvy audiophiles,
On the lookout for a great amp to play my vinyls and CDs, I spotted a Luxman L-58A on the second hand market.
Long story short: the guy was asking €150 for that amp that had not been used in many years, we tried the amp together at mine, it worked fine but obvious issue with the treble control (which still works but not like it should), at which point we agreed that I'd ask my tech a quote for a fix + full revision, further to what we can then decide what to do: my tech quoted €600 and the (definitely super nice) seller decided to give me the amp after hearing that...!
Here is the report I got from my tech:
"The amp might 'work' now, but it is basically a ticking timebomb if it doesn't get a full recap soon.
The steps are kind of labour intensive and basically break down into:
- Dissecting the amplifier into its individual sections and PCB's (7 in total)
- Composing a list of all electrolytic capacitors, their values, voltage tolerance ratings, width and footprint
- Placing component orders with (at least) two providers. The large (and bloated) power capacitors are really hard to find, so I'll have to see where they can be sourced.
- Replacing all Elco's & Tantalum capacitors on all boards
- Whilst we're at it, cleaning the switches and potentiometers. Only when the stuff is open I'll have good access, so this is an opportunity.
- Put it back together
- Resolve the issue with the treble control.
- Go through factory specification alignment procedure for the bias current and offset voltage
- Do some restoration on the wooden case, because it's scratched pretty badly
This would take at least three full days of work, plus a whole bunch of parts (Audiphiles dig Nichicon capacitors, which are a little more costly than your generic Chinese stuff, but do tend to stay healthy for at least 3 decades) and my count has me at around €600."
Now, what would you guys do in my place? Does this report sound reasonable to you? Based on my experience with my tech, I'd be surprised to hear overly negative comments about it, though you may have ideas / remarks / suggestions 🙂
If the amp fell on your lap like it fell on mine, would you drop €600 to bring it back to "factory specs" (or say, as close as possible to these)?
Is it worth it commercially speaking, and perhaps more importantly, sonically speaking (should I rather drop €600 on another, seemingly "better" amp)? Another option would be to resell the amp "as is" and leave it up to others to decide whatever they want to do with it, but I have a sense I got lucky and should rather leverage that luck.
I know this very model of Luxman is great, fairly sought after, can reach 1K+ in value or so, assumingly when in good technical shape...
This is an amp I would keep and make a long-time investment for (hoping it's worth even more in twenty/thirty years from now), but there may be aspects I fail to consider that may make this prospect unrealistic (for example: if modified/recapped/no longer original enough, value won't increase...) or undesirable (the amp is not so great all things considered -- we're in 2021 after all...).
Many thanks in advance for your feedback on this potential project 🙂
Cheers - Laurent
On the lookout for a great amp to play my vinyls and CDs, I spotted a Luxman L-58A on the second hand market.
Long story short: the guy was asking €150 for that amp that had not been used in many years, we tried the amp together at mine, it worked fine but obvious issue with the treble control (which still works but not like it should), at which point we agreed that I'd ask my tech a quote for a fix + full revision, further to what we can then decide what to do: my tech quoted €600 and the (definitely super nice) seller decided to give me the amp after hearing that...!
Here is the report I got from my tech:
"The amp might 'work' now, but it is basically a ticking timebomb if it doesn't get a full recap soon.
The steps are kind of labour intensive and basically break down into:
- Dissecting the amplifier into its individual sections and PCB's (7 in total)
- Composing a list of all electrolytic capacitors, their values, voltage tolerance ratings, width and footprint
- Placing component orders with (at least) two providers. The large (and bloated) power capacitors are really hard to find, so I'll have to see where they can be sourced.
- Replacing all Elco's & Tantalum capacitors on all boards
- Whilst we're at it, cleaning the switches and potentiometers. Only when the stuff is open I'll have good access, so this is an opportunity.
- Put it back together
- Resolve the issue with the treble control.
- Go through factory specification alignment procedure for the bias current and offset voltage
- Do some restoration on the wooden case, because it's scratched pretty badly
This would take at least three full days of work, plus a whole bunch of parts (Audiphiles dig Nichicon capacitors, which are a little more costly than your generic Chinese stuff, but do tend to stay healthy for at least 3 decades) and my count has me at around €600."
Now, what would you guys do in my place? Does this report sound reasonable to you? Based on my experience with my tech, I'd be surprised to hear overly negative comments about it, though you may have ideas / remarks / suggestions 🙂
If the amp fell on your lap like it fell on mine, would you drop €600 to bring it back to "factory specs" (or say, as close as possible to these)?
Is it worth it commercially speaking, and perhaps more importantly, sonically speaking (should I rather drop €600 on another, seemingly "better" amp)? Another option would be to resell the amp "as is" and leave it up to others to decide whatever they want to do with it, but I have a sense I got lucky and should rather leverage that luck.
I know this very model of Luxman is great, fairly sought after, can reach 1K+ in value or so, assumingly when in good technical shape...
This is an amp I would keep and make a long-time investment for (hoping it's worth even more in twenty/thirty years from now), but there may be aspects I fail to consider that may make this prospect unrealistic (for example: if modified/recapped/no longer original enough, value won't increase...) or undesirable (the amp is not so great all things considered -- we're in 2021 after all...).
Many thanks in advance for your feedback on this potential project 🙂
Cheers - Laurent
I looked at 5 for sale at a touch over £1000 ( UK conversion ) -some were withdrawn -some still up for sale ,an Australian one converts to less than £!000 -- sorry I would not spend 600 euros --and that's just an estimate .
It really is a pity you cant -DIY you would get help here .
I am certainly not decrying the amplifier I like Mosfets & Fets and if you paid 150 euros even in that state its a bargain.
It really is a pity you cant -DIY you would get help here .
I am certainly not decrying the amplifier I like Mosfets & Fets and if you paid 150 euros even in that state its a bargain.
If this was not clear enough, I ended up getting this amp for free, so it's more than a bargain 🙂
Now, why would you not spend 600 euros in my place to end up with a fully revised amp rather than spend in the range of double that amount for some amp revised by God knows whom?
Now, why would you not spend 600 euros in my place to end up with a fully revised amp rather than spend in the range of double that amount for some amp revised by God knows whom?
You asked for advice and answered it yourself.
An estimate is just that --an estimate and doesn't legally hold the repairer to a fixed price ,my previous website had web pages full of complaints of --"but I was told it would probably cost £xxx but they billed me for £xxxx".
An estimate is just that --an estimate and doesn't legally hold the repairer to a fixed price ,my previous website had web pages full of complaints of --"but I was told it would probably cost £xxx but they billed me for £xxxx".
Ahah, I still need advice, I'm afraid 🙂
My tech is akin to a friend and he always sticks to his "estimates" -- admittedly I'm lucky on this end as well, never had any bad surprise over the past years despite the many projects I entrusted him with.
Now, while I sure know how to count and look up the value of things, I also know I'm not knowledgeable about the overall market for such amps, let alone this very model, therefore I thought I'd run a sanity check of the project I have in mind.
Per the end of my thread opening message, I'll gladly welcome opinions on:
- the reasonableness and completeness of the quote I have received
- the relevance of restoring this amp vs buying another model for the same kind of money (I want to make a good long-time investment)
My tech is akin to a friend and he always sticks to his "estimates" -- admittedly I'm lucky on this end as well, never had any bad surprise over the past years despite the many projects I entrusted him with.
Now, while I sure know how to count and look up the value of things, I also know I'm not knowledgeable about the overall market for such amps, let alone this very model, therefore I thought I'd run a sanity check of the project I have in mind.
Per the end of my thread opening message, I'll gladly welcome opinions on:
- the reasonableness and completeness of the quote I have received
- the relevance of restoring this amp vs buying another model for the same kind of money (I want to make a good long-time investment)
I would say it is a pretty good deal for your tech. There's something like €150 in parts in his list. Buy a Nichicon Fine Gold capacitor kit for €39 here: Luxman L-58A Upgrade Kit Audio Capacitors
The main large power supply capacitors are not included in these kits, however audio grade ones can be sourced in low volumes at good prices from other suppliers like Mouser. A can of DeoxiT R-5 to 'fix' switches and F-5 to 'fix' potentiometers, and you're pretty much done. Oh, some furniture polish with carnauba wax and a furniture touch up pen and you might have change from €150. Maybe €20 for a set of WBT lookalike speaker binding posts if the originals are impractical.
The replacement capacitor kit that replicates the original manufacturer’s specified values is a good start, however as part of an upgrade I recheck the design calculations for the values of capacitors and often change their type or value, usually to a larger value, where there is a positive acoustic benefit to be gained.
Also in the process I will correct and upgrade circuitry to reduce hum, power supply ripple noise, and ground loops, crosstalk, remove where practical or replace electrolytic coupling capacitors with WIMA audio grade film capacitors, if I can make them fit. https://www.wima.de/wp-content/uploads/media/WIMA-Audio.pdf
Also check on the net for common problems and upgrades worked out by others, plus technical notes and revisions from the manufacturer.
I also investigate upgrades to current sources, transistors and op-amps, etc, to see if better performance can be gained by using modern low noise components. I will normally discuss the cost benefit before incurring expenses.
Finally the bias and offsets adjusted, then it's subjected to performance evaluation, and vibration and shock testing to preclude premature failure on return to the client. A furniture touch up pen and some furniture polish with carnauba wax gives a new shine to the timber casework.
After this makeover it will have higher performance and better sound quality than when it left the factory, sometimes very significantly.
The main large power supply capacitors are not included in these kits, however audio grade ones can be sourced in low volumes at good prices from other suppliers like Mouser. A can of DeoxiT R-5 to 'fix' switches and F-5 to 'fix' potentiometers, and you're pretty much done. Oh, some furniture polish with carnauba wax and a furniture touch up pen and you might have change from €150. Maybe €20 for a set of WBT lookalike speaker binding posts if the originals are impractical.
The replacement capacitor kit that replicates the original manufacturer’s specified values is a good start, however as part of an upgrade I recheck the design calculations for the values of capacitors and often change their type or value, usually to a larger value, where there is a positive acoustic benefit to be gained.
Also in the process I will correct and upgrade circuitry to reduce hum, power supply ripple noise, and ground loops, crosstalk, remove where practical or replace electrolytic coupling capacitors with WIMA audio grade film capacitors, if I can make them fit. https://www.wima.de/wp-content/uploads/media/WIMA-Audio.pdf
Also check on the net for common problems and upgrades worked out by others, plus technical notes and revisions from the manufacturer.
I also investigate upgrades to current sources, transistors and op-amps, etc, to see if better performance can be gained by using modern low noise components. I will normally discuss the cost benefit before incurring expenses.
Finally the bias and offsets adjusted, then it's subjected to performance evaluation, and vibration and shock testing to preclude premature failure on return to the client. A furniture touch up pen and some furniture polish with carnauba wax gives a new shine to the timber casework.
After this makeover it will have higher performance and better sound quality than when it left the factory, sometimes very significantly.
I've done many restorations for customers over the years, and some can be quite pricy due to the amount work involved.
One customer brought into my shop a monster Pioneer SX-1250 which ended up costing him $1060.00 total... but IMO worth the investment, which after he got it home, he wanted to bring me another!
That said, if the product is suitable and desirable enough, the one-time cost for services should not be an issue.
However, do not let the mere musings of the internet lead you to a solution or opinion on any particular item, because some are just hype and nonsense, and intended to sway the reader's choices.
The intelligent choice should be focused on suitability, specifications, and since superficiality is a common human trait, build quality.
One customer brought into my shop a monster Pioneer SX-1250 which ended up costing him $1060.00 total... but IMO worth the investment, which after he got it home, he wanted to bring me another!
That said, if the product is suitable and desirable enough, the one-time cost for services should not be an issue.
However, do not let the mere musings of the internet lead you to a solution or opinion on any particular item, because some are just hype and nonsense, and intended to sway the reader's choices.
The intelligent choice should be focused on suitability, specifications, and since superficiality is a common human trait, build quality.
Thanks for the tip on the kit and all the rest of this expert advice!
My tech is much more used to fixing FX pedals and guitar amps than integrated audio amps like this one, and I'm not surprised he wouldn't know the existence of such kits -- I'll make sure to pass all of the good info, thank you so much 🙂
Thanks for your feedback and fully agreed with your final statements!
I understand this amp model is in line with my needs while it boasts a reputation that makes me confident it will satisfy them.
Seems like I should go ahead with this project, just keeping a good eye on budget 🙂
I have fitted kits from Audio High Store to plenty of amplifiers; some I have purchased and some given to me by clients. Be warned that their kits are not infallible (they sometimes miss parts or supply incorrect parts, or even parts not required because the service manual they took their data from covered more than one model) and the kits take weeks or months to arrive, at least here in Australia. Their Nichicon components have tested fine on value, ESR, Vloss, D factor, etc across the audio band on both of my capacitor analysers, so I don't think there is a issue with counterfeit product.
Where an electrolytic is used for audio coupling between stages with very little voltage across it, it is better to use a WIMA audio film capacitor, or a Nichicon Muse bipolar if there is no WIMA small enough to fit; either will give lower distortion than a standard polarised electro in that position. Sometimes the coupling capacitor can safely be removed and/or linked across, which is even better.
Before removing old polarised components for replacement, check the markings on the circuit board against the actual components being removed. It is not uncommon for the silkscreening and/or service manual to have errors in them, but the actual component placement on the board will normally be correct. Reverse connected polarised electros are likely to go bang like firecrackers.
Where an electrolytic is used for audio coupling between stages with very little voltage across it, it is better to use a WIMA audio film capacitor, or a Nichicon Muse bipolar if there is no WIMA small enough to fit; either will give lower distortion than a standard polarised electro in that position. Sometimes the coupling capacitor can safely be removed and/or linked across, which is even better.
Before removing old polarised components for replacement, check the markings on the circuit board against the actual components being removed. It is not uncommon for the silkscreening and/or service manual to have errors in them, but the actual component placement on the board will normally be correct. Reverse connected polarised electros are likely to go bang like firecrackers.
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