I have lived with these speakers for 3 months now as my daily drivers, for general TV watching to critical listening. They sit in 0.39 cu. ft. boxes tuned to 56 hz, heavily damped with F13 wool felt. (I picked up (10) 5ft. rolls for $8 on clearance at Grainger. 🙂
What I can say about these speakers is, they are without a doubt, my favorite speakers I have ever heard, hands down. I come from a background of luxury theater design and building, and I have heard many speakers in all types of environments, and to MY ears, they are simply magic... Why magic? Because I don't understand why I love them. The line between my objectivist mindset and subjectivist by the feeling these speakers make me have is... blurred.
Science tells me, no single driver should produce vocals and kick drums at the same time. Physics tells me treble and bass should not coexist in the same unit, so on faith I went for it, and THEY FREAKING DO IT ALL.
I know the frequency response is objectively not flat, and I will get to that later, but for some initial impressions first.
Imaging is beyond anything I have ever experienced in any speaker.
In fact my father-in-law came over after I finished them and I played him Emilie-Claire Barlow's version of The Very Thought of You, and the first thing he said was "why is her voice in the middle if there's no speaker in the middle?" Exactly.
On the subject of her voice: Female vocals and stringed instruments especially shine best out of the genres I have played. Mids are GORGEOUS. Spare the fancy terms. Sweet Love of Mine by Joy Williams and Teir Abhaile Riu by Celtic Woman are absolute gold from the Alpairs. Wind instruments as well have such a beautiful quality. When it comes to Drum & Bass, Dubstep, or anything with heavy amounts of bass, they tend to... Run out of steam? I don't know how to concisely describe what happens. They DO play fine, but cohesion is understandably lost with higher excursion loads.
Initially in a room measuring approx. 14' x 20' x 8' with with weird shapes and moderate damping, imaging was best but bass was lacking. Quick measurements put us at steep drop off below 70hz or so. And then I moved them to a moderately damped 12' x 13' x 8' room, where I could make use of some wall boundaries, and NOW we have bass. Center image became a bit muddy, listening from about 9' back, however we now have absolutely sufficient bass down to, I would guess the low 50's with what feels like a much more shallow rolloff. No measurements. Toe-in aided the center focus.
In this same room I decided to run them as nearfield computer speakers and that's where I got to experience the main downsides of these speakers.
Being so close to them, the treble is very apparent and at high volumes, I was becoming fatigued much quicker than anything else I've heard before. I'd have to blame that 12kHz peak for that. Just not flat enough for my liking. And that is really my only big gripe with these. Toe-ing them out a bit solves that but we lose the imaging magic as well. I personally prefer them as a mid to farfield speaker than nearfield, in a small to medium room. A/B-ing these against my TABAQ RS-100 2-ways with 5/8" Dayton tweeters, I can admit to liking the treble a whole lot more than the Alpairs.
My other problem with these, is a cosmetic thing: the center cap. On both of my units, the overall build quality is fantastic aside from massive glue beads around each center cap. It really does not look good.
So in total, they are not for everybody, and they aren't for ultra loud listening, or for multiple seating environments like a theater because I could hear the beaming and treble is destroyed off-axis.
I know they measure poorly on a scale, and I have a deep respect for objective measurements and science in the audio world, especially being in a work field involving so much physics and acoustical engineering. But I can't shake these drivers. I was set when I got them to prove myself right in knowing they'd sound bad... But guess what? They just... Make me happy. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
Do with that what you will. 😛
What I can say about these speakers is, they are without a doubt, my favorite speakers I have ever heard, hands down. I come from a background of luxury theater design and building, and I have heard many speakers in all types of environments, and to MY ears, they are simply magic... Why magic? Because I don't understand why I love them. The line between my objectivist mindset and subjectivist by the feeling these speakers make me have is... blurred.
Science tells me, no single driver should produce vocals and kick drums at the same time. Physics tells me treble and bass should not coexist in the same unit, so on faith I went for it, and THEY FREAKING DO IT ALL.
I know the frequency response is objectively not flat, and I will get to that later, but for some initial impressions first.
Imaging is beyond anything I have ever experienced in any speaker.
In fact my father-in-law came over after I finished them and I played him Emilie-Claire Barlow's version of The Very Thought of You, and the first thing he said was "why is her voice in the middle if there's no speaker in the middle?" Exactly.
On the subject of her voice: Female vocals and stringed instruments especially shine best out of the genres I have played. Mids are GORGEOUS. Spare the fancy terms. Sweet Love of Mine by Joy Williams and Teir Abhaile Riu by Celtic Woman are absolute gold from the Alpairs. Wind instruments as well have such a beautiful quality. When it comes to Drum & Bass, Dubstep, or anything with heavy amounts of bass, they tend to... Run out of steam? I don't know how to concisely describe what happens. They DO play fine, but cohesion is understandably lost with higher excursion loads.
Initially in a room measuring approx. 14' x 20' x 8' with with weird shapes and moderate damping, imaging was best but bass was lacking. Quick measurements put us at steep drop off below 70hz or so. And then I moved them to a moderately damped 12' x 13' x 8' room, where I could make use of some wall boundaries, and NOW we have bass. Center image became a bit muddy, listening from about 9' back, however we now have absolutely sufficient bass down to, I would guess the low 50's with what feels like a much more shallow rolloff. No measurements. Toe-in aided the center focus.
In this same room I decided to run them as nearfield computer speakers and that's where I got to experience the main downsides of these speakers.
Being so close to them, the treble is very apparent and at high volumes, I was becoming fatigued much quicker than anything else I've heard before. I'd have to blame that 12kHz peak for that. Just not flat enough for my liking. And that is really my only big gripe with these. Toe-ing them out a bit solves that but we lose the imaging magic as well. I personally prefer them as a mid to farfield speaker than nearfield, in a small to medium room. A/B-ing these against my TABAQ RS-100 2-ways with 5/8" Dayton tweeters, I can admit to liking the treble a whole lot more than the Alpairs.
My other problem with these, is a cosmetic thing: the center cap. On both of my units, the overall build quality is fantastic aside from massive glue beads around each center cap. It really does not look good.
So in total, they are not for everybody, and they aren't for ultra loud listening, or for multiple seating environments like a theater because I could hear the beaming and treble is destroyed off-axis.
I know they measure poorly on a scale, and I have a deep respect for objective measurements and science in the audio world, especially being in a work field involving so much physics and acoustical engineering. But I can't shake these drivers. I was set when I got them to prove myself right in knowing they'd sound bad... But guess what? They just... Make me happy. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
Do with that what you will. 😛
Attachments
Dear drummerdrewski,
My Alpair7MS is about 6 months old and it's good.
Strings and female vocals are great.
And there's plenty of bass too.
I don't mind the glue sticking out.
Alpair7MS at YouTube
Tapered Wave Tube with Damp Duct(TWTD)／ ダンプダクト付きテーパー波動管（開口部オフセット型TQWT） + Alpair7MS - YouTube
My Alpair7MS is about 6 months old and it's good.
Strings and female vocals are great.
And there's plenty of bass too.
I don't mind the glue sticking out.
Alpair7MS at YouTube
Tapered Wave Tube with Damp Duct(TWTD)／ ダンプダクト付きテーパー波動管（開口部オフセット型TQWT） + Alpair7MS - YouTube
Mark Audio (all models) are not your everyday fullrange drivers, that is true. I heared quiet a few, old and new and no one does it as good as Mark Audio in my book. The peak that cause fatigue can easely be tamed by an LRC network so they sound flatter if it disturbs you (i did it on the Alpair 10.3 sets i have, not on the CHN110 set). They are bending the physics that limit most fullrange drivers with their designs, but avoiding the resonance peak is probally impossible.
And off course they are not ruler-flat or fit for high volume, such a small driver can't do that in any way. But i'm glad you like them anyway, so do i (and i'm used to studio monitors, as i was working in pro audio years ago).
And off course they are not ruler-flat or fit for high volume, such a small driver can't do that in any way. But i'm glad you like them anyway, so do i (and i'm used to studio monitors, as i was working in pro audio years ago).
Thank you all for your feedback! I'd love to see this discussion continue, as many of you have seen me lurking around for ages on this forum and I appreciate learning all I can as I delve down this fullrange rabbit hole. I am astonished at the performance.
@planet10 I'll have to get back with you about the A12pw, I don't know if you recall we emailed a bit about the Tyrannosaurus designs. 🙂
@nandappe can you explain a bit about your enclosure design and what it does for both driver control and frequency extension? I'm assuming it's intended to extend bass like any other tapered quarter wave type.
@waxx do you have any suggestions on an LRC circuit to try on these? I have modeled some.in XSim already, but I'm aware that simulations don't always match real-world performance in this audio world.
Also, how do you correctly tag people to respond to their comments?
@planet10 I'll have to get back with you about the A12pw, I don't know if you recall we emailed a bit about the Tyrannosaurus designs. 🙂
@nandappe can you explain a bit about your enclosure design and what it does for both driver control and frequency extension? I'm assuming it's intended to extend bass like any other tapered quarter wave type.
@waxx do you have any suggestions on an LRC circuit to try on these? I have modeled some.in XSim already, but I'm aware that simulations don't always match real-world performance in this audio world.
Also, how do you correctly tag people to respond to their comments?
I wish there was more glue on my a7s, I have 3 more that need re-gluing to secure the cap n remove the buzzing. Monday morning specials maybe?
Yes, they're just folded ML-Voigts (aka tapped ML-horns). I can't speak for our friend nandappe, but I used that configuration in order to get the driver tap location where I wanted along the expansion path, which wouldn't have been possible with the desired enclosure dimensions if I'd just used a single internal panel. Not a very exotic reason I know, but it works fine. 😉
Fun review to read through! I enjoy your excitement.
I once owned a pair of Altec Valencias. I also had a large Sanyo TV (31" CRT) set between them. My friend remarked "Sounds like the guys voice is coming right out of his picture on the screen". Yup, something about that phase coherence from 800 on up - even better from "40" on up. Center channel... Ha!
I'd say I feel similarly about my F15s. All the physics based issues they should have, but you know what? Mark isnt the only person in the world who knows how to build a driver that's hard to shake after you hear it. If I was an Egyptian emperor, they'd be discovered in my tomb along with the other things I might need in the afterlife.
I once owned a pair of Altec Valencias. I also had a large Sanyo TV (31" CRT) set between them. My friend remarked "Sounds like the guys voice is coming right out of his picture on the screen". Yup, something about that phase coherence from 800 on up - even better from "40" on up. Center channel... Ha!
I'd say I feel similarly about my F15s. All the physics based issues they should have, but you know what? Mark isnt the only person in the world who knows how to build a driver that's hard to shake after you hear it. If I was an Egyptian emperor, they'd be discovered in my tomb along with the other things I might need in the afterlife.
Never used this driver so i can't tell. Measuring the response in your box and simulate from that measurments, but keep a slight rise (1-3dB max) is often the right way. That rise is needed for off-axis response and won't really disturb the on-axis response enought that you're bothered by it.
Dear drummer drewski,
The outline of the TWTD box design
1. Optimize the driver mounting position by making two folds.
2. Reduce standing waves by reducing internal parallel planes.
3. Offsetting the opening reduces the bass enhancement efficiency, but flattens the audible characteristics.
The outline of the TWTD box design
1. Optimize the driver mounting position by making two folds.
2. Reduce standing waves by reducing internal parallel planes.
3. Offsetting the opening reduces the bass enhancement efficiency, but flattens the audible characteristics.
Thank you for your listening experience.
I have ordered 11MS.
Goes a little deeper in the base according to FS. Hope the middle register is equally revealed. Likes a wide and deep sound image.
I have ordered 11MS.
Goes a little deeper in the base according to FS. Hope the middle register is equally revealed. Likes a wide and deep sound image.
I can verify that adding a 12pw (or two!) makes an already wonderful experience even better. Freeing the 7 from having to produce low frequencies means the mid range and treble come into even better focus, and the 12 does bass better anyway. Using low-order crossover allows for so much overlap that you don't lose the imaging magic.
I am on my second iteration of this concept and couldn't be happier. See my threads for details.
I am on my second iteration of this concept and couldn't be happier. See my threads for details.