Scott, I greatly prefer the sound of my 40W/ch, Mastersound Reference 845, SET amp over active speakers any day, but to each their own I suppose...
Thetubeguy1954
Oh, so that's just like electrolytic capacitors. However, unlike electrolytic capacitors, there's been no advance in cable design and manufacture, thus the new cables don't last any longer than the old ones. If only these cables had a use in high-density switching power supplies, newer ones would last longer now than the older ones.
You can teach the electrons how to operate in confusion, and also set them free, by playing this song after each "inversion:"
The Temptations - Ball of Confusion - YouTube
While I can't deny being a wiseass, I assure you the test was real and was blind. As I stated earlier, I have a whole thread on the subject. Seek and ye shall find. Should be about 9-10 years back.
I have never said that you aren't hearing differences, just that the differences are simply due to L/C/R and could be imitated with discrete parts. For power cable shielding can make a difference if you run power near signal. Also note that I said systems better than yours - to make a point. The appeal to better gear and better ears never ends.
FWIW, I get called a stinkin' objectivist and a dirty subjectivist depending on the day of the week. 😛 I don't mind either way, I just like systems that sound like real music, however that is achieved.
Pano, did you try cryo treatment on the potato cable? That should be significant. I also wonder if biwiring with a banana/mud combo would be a gamechanger. But which to run to the tweeters? And are bananas directional?
😀
It's like a colour or a taste, some like it and others don't
When you mean to hear a positive difference between cables high enough to make you decide to buy this cable, just do it.
Be happy with it, whether cheap or expensive, but don't try to convince others that this is the best cable (or colour or taste for that matter).
When in your opinion all cables are sounding the same, be aware that this is just an opinion and not a fact.
Opinions may be nice to read as long as they are not presented as hard facts, causing many negative postings in this thread and very little constructive contributions.
Hans
When you mean to hear a positive difference between cables high enough to make you decide to buy this cable, just do it.
Be happy with it, whether cheap or expensive, but don't try to convince others that this is the best cable (or colour or taste for that matter).
When in your opinion all cables are sounding the same, be aware that this is just an opinion and not a fact.
Opinions may be nice to read as long as they are not presented as hard facts, causing many negative postings in this thread and very little constructive contributions.
Hans
Believing that adequate cables sound different is just an opinion not backed up by facts or science.
Better keep it to yourself.
Better keep it to yourself.
Dielectric absorption, eddy currents, oxidation of conductor surface (nonlinear resistance), etc.
The best speaker cable is no speaker cable. You could improve your system with a line level passive crossover, if you don't like active, and multiple high end amps of your choice, probably.
I'll be 60 this year and have been interested in hi fidelity equipment since I was 18. I build a few pairs of speakers at 20 that didn't turn out well. I then purchased many expensive pieces name brand equipment to numerous to mention, including cables, for many years. Cables?- I should have known better, since I have a technical background!🙁
Now I build everything, there is not one piece of over priced popular name brand equipment that I will purchase again. All of the electronics will be from this forum or other diy forums, AMB Lab for example. (I just ordered 7 chassis to house more diy offerings). My ambition is to quantify every aspect in the audio chain but that's an unrealistic goal so I stick with speakers and room acoustics in that regard.
I design and build my own speakers and yes they are resolving. My Salas preamps, Apex gain stage amps, top Class D, oppo and sony Cd player and Asus xonar sound card are all accurate enough. Speakers and room interface are most important, real quantifiable changes are gained here. I will spend about about $4k on room acoustics this year.
My current main speaker(which is sold to a friend when complete) was evaluated by a few other people who have a lot of experience travelling to high end shops and shows, comments are , "it sounds like $60k system I've heard at hi end shops"
This is not boasting about my system! I starting listening to the experts on this forum regarding speaker design and now have a system at this level. Please, listen to these members about Cables!
With all of the above going on, the importance of a specific speaker cable becomes meaningless, I just need some wires to hook up my systems. Any decent quality speaker wire with good quality connections will do just fine.
Thetubeguy1954 - Just for an experiment, what if you swapped out your speaker cables with some 14-16 gauge basic wire of any type and had a listen. Take note of the initial impression. Then swap back and forth over a period of time listening to each one for an extended time period. Do this over 1-2 months and see what your subjective impressions are?
Good questions. Eddy currents is a tough one, the only time I can remember that making an obvious difference with speaker cable is when we went from braided cable to braided cable with a magnetic core. The difference was subtle, but an improvement. That was a strange one and might have been eddy currents.
Oxidation of the connectors is a big problem, I think one of the major problems in audio. I would call that a connector problem, tho, not cable. We have certainly made progress there, considering the cheap and flimsy connectors we used in the 50s and 60s.
As to the rest, it's easy these days to measure L,C,R* and when those are measured and modeled in software, one can see the resulting EQ changes. Changing EQ can be noticeable, whether done with cables, analog filters, DSP or other means. My experience with wires sounding different has almost always been EQ changes. Phase maybe noticeable but I don't find it to be a huge effect.
*Small values of R can be tricky to measure, of course. But you do the best you can and estimate from wire resistance tables.
No of course not. With potato cables the best tweak is Fry-O treatment. 😀
What a fantastic positive and constructive posting.
Try to explain why according to your opinion it should be backed up by facts or science, that would be groundbreaking and in the spirit of the real Charles Darwin.
Hans
So far nobody has been able to prove that they do sound different in a scientifically acceptable test. Science gives us no reason that they should.
Prove it, win money and possibly a Nobel Prize in Physics.
Until then your opinion is just that: A meaningless opinion by an individual.
Prove it, win money and possibly a Nobel Prize in Physics.
Until then your opinion is just that: A meaningless opinion by an individual.
indeed, a difference can be determined with a (subjectivists, close your eyes!) double blind test between the two things.
Better is (almost) always an opinion, but it's possible (though rarely done) to make an objective determination of 'better' by comparing each reproduction system with live music. The one that sounds more like live is better, though the real preference and money go for the one that sounds more enjoyable.
I doubt there is any other field where so much utter rubbish is spoken than that of audio cables.
Some people expend huge efforts in writing voluminous amounts of gibberish in order to justify how much they have spent on various snake oils and unobtaniums.
Bottom line is, and has always been, the sonic differences between different cables is very, very slight and objective opinions on the subject are hard to find because of all the money involved, not least the desire to justify the outlay on some exotic but unnecessary item.
If using mega expensive snake oil cables makes you happy, then good for you, but don't try to convince others they are somehow inferior if they don't do likewise.
Some people expend huge efforts in writing voluminous amounts of gibberish in order to justify how much they have spent on various snake oils and unobtaniums.
Bottom line is, and has always been, the sonic differences between different cables is very, very slight and objective opinions on the subject are hard to find because of all the money involved, not least the desire to justify the outlay on some exotic but unnecessary item.
If using mega expensive snake oil cables makes you happy, then good for you, but don't try to convince others they are somehow inferior if they don't do likewise.
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