The definition of DIY is very clear. And it does not include buying a commercially manufactured product as an alternative to building something yourself.
Now if you want to make the case, as apparently you do, that discussing commercial products on a forum mainly intended for DIY purposes such as this one is appropriate, then you are entitled to do so. But that does not extend to you being able to change the basic definition of DIY itself.
Thanks. 😉 Look around it happens all the time. You yourself posted a couple of PS Audio YT videos recently, do you think he was talking about DIY horn speakers, does he ever talk about DIY?
Yes, Paul does.
The first time i met him, Paul & Stan showed me their diy speaker work using Accoustat panels. Inspired me to do the same with mine.
But his main role is to sell stuff, he does not reach the diy heights Nelson has illustrated so well.
dave
The first time i met him, Paul & Stan showed me their diy speaker work using Accoustat panels. Inspired me to do the same with mine.
But his main role is to sell stuff, he does not reach the diy heights Nelson has illustrated so well.
dave
Right, Nelson's a good example, I don't see the point of trying to make hard and fast distinctions between commercial and DIY.
You must be fooling yourself because you're not fooling me. There's no way on this planet you can match a rather humble $1,000 pair of speakers with $100. Perhaps you can build a $50,000 pair for $5,000 but I am not holding my breath.
I agree with you that there is a lower end threshold. $100 might not be enough to meet it. But at about $400 to $500 in cost I think you can.
The PS Audio YT post had nothing to do with DIY vs commercial speakers. It was strictly about the "honky" sound from horn speakers. Which is a fundamental issue regardless of who builds them, a factory or a DIYer.
No, that's just an opinion not a fact. The cupping of the hands around the mouth is a joke.
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yes.
It is always better to build a speaker that does not need the extra DSP/ADC/DAC or the expense and typically poor performance of an analog device.
It may work well but it is still a band-aid to a more compromised loudspeaker.
dave
It is always better to build a speaker that does not need the extra DSP/ADC/DAC or the expense and typically poor performance of an analog device.
It may work well but it is still a band-aid to a more compromised loudspeaker.
dave
I agree with fedde.
Bringing EQ, multi-amping and other aspects not commonly available in commercial speakers gives DIY an edge and makes it all more worth doing.
I can tune distortion on a Nelson low wattage amp and then pick drivers to drive with say 6W each and enjoy the results not available in the local HiFi store. And I can do that on the mid drivers while using a different amp on the bass unit. I can set delays for different sub location(s). I can even run Geddes matlab routine to optimize a multi-sub setup in my space; Matching impedances and addressing a lot of detail which is beyond the guy trying to move boxes in the local hiFi store.
The beauty of DIY is really that there are no limits as to how much one can customize an audio system to suit their specific needs. The knowledgeable people are available to learn from and then one can experiment on top of it themselves. dealing with $, time and WAF constraints are all part of it. No free lunch. And yes there is a trade off between time spent on making stuff and time left available to listen to music.
I find it interesting that I pointed out the equal loudness curves in a post before and what challenge they present for a design and a recording and got no comments. I cannot say that I am surprised because every now and then I have to (re)explain the same stuff to many a new professional in the S&V field at work. These curves pretty much explain why the industry can only design for an average solution which may or may not work well in one's particular application. Moreover the lack of standard across the recording industry makes the industry shoot at a moving target.
That is why in the commercial market the likes of Bose actually deserve respect: they understand the psychoacoustics and will design for solutions which are not aimed at accurate reproduction but play to a common perception which in the majority of consumers will evoke a quick appeal (they test people to learn what catches their attention first and makes for a "Wow effect" even it has nothing to do with accuracy of reproduction; not everyone is a musician and the critical listening is an equally acquired skill).
Bringing EQ, multi-amping and other aspects not commonly available in commercial speakers gives DIY an edge and makes it all more worth doing.
I can tune distortion on a Nelson low wattage amp and then pick drivers to drive with say 6W each and enjoy the results not available in the local HiFi store. And I can do that on the mid drivers while using a different amp on the bass unit. I can set delays for different sub location(s). I can even run Geddes matlab routine to optimize a multi-sub setup in my space; Matching impedances and addressing a lot of detail which is beyond the guy trying to move boxes in the local hiFi store.
The beauty of DIY is really that there are no limits as to how much one can customize an audio system to suit their specific needs. The knowledgeable people are available to learn from and then one can experiment on top of it themselves. dealing with $, time and WAF constraints are all part of it. No free lunch. And yes there is a trade off between time spent on making stuff and time left available to listen to music.
I find it interesting that I pointed out the equal loudness curves in a post before and what challenge they present for a design and a recording and got no comments. I cannot say that I am surprised because every now and then I have to (re)explain the same stuff to many a new professional in the S&V field at work. These curves pretty much explain why the industry can only design for an average solution which may or may not work well in one's particular application. Moreover the lack of standard across the recording industry makes the industry shoot at a moving target.
That is why in the commercial market the likes of Bose actually deserve respect: they understand the psychoacoustics and will design for solutions which are not aimed at accurate reproduction but play to a common perception which in the majority of consumers will evoke a quick appeal (they test people to learn what catches their attention first and makes for a "Wow effect" even it has nothing to do with accuracy of reproduction; not everyone is a musician and the critical listening is an equally acquired skill).
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Maybe you enjoy music that sounds like it's being played through a megaphone, but, like Paul McGowan, I don't care for it very much. And apparently, neither do a lot of other people.
There are links to two vids. Go back to my post #181 on page 19 in this thread to see them.
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Except, of course, not all horns sound like that, to suggest they do just displays your bias.
Fully agree, it is always good to have a band-aid at hand during DIY work... 😛
Some commercial offerings like Kii3, Dutch&Dutch 8c and Grimm LS1 even have built-in band-aids, great sound!
Perhaps Dave doesn't realise it would also help correct timing errors which would help reveal micro-detail and improve DDR 😉