AK4499EQ - Best DAC ever

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#1,142
Jakob2 said:
isn't it more a matter of biased interpretation of the Carver challenge/results?
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It was more to raise the issue to the golden ears. I have no strong view on the outcome.



You mentioned "blind" but there was no "blind testing" involved
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Correct my bad for quoting from memory rather than checking the source. I usually hold myself to a higher standard than that.


andrea_mori said:
But even if the measurements make you uncomfortable what is left?
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I never said they did, so not sure of your point?
 
#1,145
mterbekke said:
P.S. If you haven't tried, please do: when e.g. a musician plays along your favorite guitar song, if you turn the music up just a bit, you hardly notice any difference, no artificiality, it's as good as integrated. When you turn the music down a bit, is when the shocker comes. Frightening. It's even more fun with a violin or a drum. Speakers, in general, are terrible.
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mterbekke said:
You're absolutely right, it can't be done.

Nobody in the world is going to get their hands on a full orchestra, sit in the same position as the ab- or ms-microphones, position his speakers between the orchestra (and lives to tell about it), gets time to alter his settings and gets another go at it, all the while the orchestra is going to play that part you want to hear and wait untill you're finished playing back the recording while listening in total silence for more spatial and tonal clues.
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It went from guitar song to full orchestra? Moving the goalpost noted.
 
#1,146
andrea_mori said:
My point is if the measurements make you comfortable.
If so what kind of measurements do you trust?
THD is fine?
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Define trust? Please note a pleasant listening experience and acccurate/transparent are two completely different things and I would not be surprised if some people would be horrified to hear a master tape in a mastering suite. Sadly an exceedingly hard test to setup but would be fun.


But home listening should be about enjoyment and no measurement can readily capture that.
 
#1,147
Evenharmonics said:
I would rather get it done at once. As for your "In the meantime I look for the amps measurements." goes?
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Maybe it's best if you let it go, it's more than clear you are not able to do what you claimed.
You talk about measurements just to write something but you don't really know what you're talking about.

But I'm usually positive, so we can check right away: can you please explain how THD affects the "sound characteristics" you are able to predict?
 
#1,148
billshurv said:
Define trust? Please note a pleasant listening experience and acccurate/transparent are two completely different things and I would not be surprised if some people would be horrified to hear a master tape in a mastering suite. Sadly an exceedingly hard test to setup but would be fun.


But home listening should be about enjoyment and no measurement can readily capture that.
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Sorry but I'm a little confused: what do you mean "Just the saying how it sounds makes me uncomfortable".
Maybe I have not understood.
 
#1,149
OK. But first note that I think THD is a worthless measurement out of context. It has uses but in general a multi-tone is far more valuable in terms of a one graph overview.



Subjective opinions on the internet mean nothing to me. Different music, different ears, different equipment in different room by people with different preferences. Worthless. Measurement interpretation is indeed often tricky but it is the only common language we have.
 
#1,150
billshurv said:
OK. But first note that I think THD is a worthless measurement out of context. It has uses but in general a multi-tone is far more valuable in terms of a one graph overview.



Subjective opinions on the internet mean nothing to me. Different music, different ears, different equipment in different room by people with different preferences. Worthless. Measurement interpretation is indeed often tricky but it is the only common language we have.
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So how do you proceed? Do you look at the measurements and choose based on this data?

Or do you finally test with your ears?
 
#1,151
I don't test with my ears. I decide whether I like the result with my ears, with all biases and preferences in play. But in terms of where I need to improve in order are
1. fleshy
2. listening room
3. speakers
4. Amplifiers


So DAC is a lowly 4th in my priorities and stuff 150dB down on a clock is even further.



And yes I chose my amplifiers and DACs based on measurements and weight that against cost and budget. I wouldn't want to convince anyone my way is the right way, but it works for me and I make no claims for how my system sounds.



IF I were building a DAC then I might chose the latest greatest just for the hell of it because I could, but I'm not likely to do that.
 
#1,152
Okay, but in the end you decide if you like the result with your ears.
This means that the measurements are not enough, they could be a basis for comparison, but ultimately what matters is whether you like the sound result.

Let's talk about the DAC even if it is in fourth place in your priorities (but if that's not good we can talk about drivers).

Let's assume there are only 2 DACs to choose from, same price, same size, same weight, same resolution and so on. Only different implementations and measurements.
Let's assume the first implements the ES9038PRO and the second is a discrete R2R DAC.
Let's assume these DACs are:
- Buffalo IIIse
- DAM1021

How do you make your choice?
 
#1,158
andrea_mori said:
So you are totally excluding measurements from your basis for choice, when you said just the opposite.
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I've not heard of these before so why you expect me to drop everything to review them is beyond me. So let me be clear. €100 DACs generally have a performance level I consider good enough to not be the weak link in my system. The only ones that fail are generally are the more extreme schools. In the grand scheme of things the distortions are orders of magnitude below other things I need to fix.



So I would pick the cheapest one (bearing in mind I need 6 channels of DAC). Commercially I certainly wouldn't pay more than an OktoDAC 8 pro, which will probably be my next DAC (€150 per channel so pushing out the boat for me).
 
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