I'd really like to build/buy a coaxial speaker to see what they're like.
Budget is $500 for drivers and would use either my nanoDIGI or DCX2496 for XO. Maybe passive conversion in future. Sealed or passive, <4cuft. Full-range but would experiment pairing with sealed and dipole subs.
Immediately, I'd be using them nearfield (4ft away) flanking my desk but would like something that would work well at a 12ft listening distance at moderate levels.
I've read through some older threads but most recommendations/ideas seem to dead end due to driver availability.
Looked at Loki and Osprey but like the idea of a larger driver 12-15". DIYSG Vortex12 sounded neat and I'd be more willing to spend more on a vetted design but these appear to be unavailable or the foreseeable future.
The Beta-12CX is only a few dollars more than the 10CX. Would an upsized Osprey clone hold any promise or would that be too greedy?
Budget is $500 for drivers and would use either my nanoDIGI or DCX2496 for XO. Maybe passive conversion in future. Sealed or passive, <4cuft. Full-range but would experiment pairing with sealed and dipole subs.
Immediately, I'd be using them nearfield (4ft away) flanking my desk but would like something that would work well at a 12ft listening distance at moderate levels.
I've read through some older threads but most recommendations/ideas seem to dead end due to driver availability.
Looked at Loki and Osprey but like the idea of a larger driver 12-15". DIYSG Vortex12 sounded neat and I'd be more willing to spend more on a vetted design but these appear to be unavailable or the foreseeable future.
The Beta-12CX is only a few dollars more than the 10CX. Would an upsized Osprey clone hold any promise or would that be too greedy?
I like some of the Tannoy coax a lot. And full range infinite baffle. Here is some other FR driver options to consider Speaker Components : Fostex
Madisound Speaker Components
Madisound Speaker Components
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I have recently build a few eminence coax speakers; the beta 10cx in a 35l front port cab and the 12cx in a 45l rear ported box. I have played around with different HF drivers and eminence crossovers; I have some recent threads with my findings but now with more time I can give some more input. These are both great drivers for the price but are very different.
The 10” is smooth and forgiving easy sounding and I’m very pleased with my design, I enjoy them much more than any other speaker I have had probably a lot to do with the high sensitivity paper cone which gives concert sound even at low levels. Bass is great. Midrange a little bumpy but I’m fine with it. I love the coax coherence point source, works great at any distance.
The 12” on the other hand require more work, it’s a little rough sounding especially in the mids, I believe it has a higher potential as a pro speaker and it can play seriously loud and have a stronger bass but it my box doesn’t go as deep, I plan to build a larger front port cabinet and custom crossover to get the max of this maybe 70l.
Of all the HF drivers I tried I like PSD2002 the most. I’m considering to get PSD2013 as well when starting over with the 12” new cabinet and custom xo but I need to play around some more with the HF as these are also somewhat bumpy and very different sounding. I hope to do some measurement to record my finding a little less subjective and biased before I start any upgrades. I’m also considering DSP here.
HOWEVER....
There is a new 12” from Eminence; Kappalite kL-3012cx. It’s looks like a dramatically improved driver all together with its smoother response, higher power handling, and die cast aluminum casket and neo magnet. I’m so tempted to buy it for my upgrade project with PSD2013 however there is still very little reviews and the price is 3x where there is a lot more competition from BMS, B&C, Faital etc. so I’m not sure, and with 1” throat I might still have the same HF bumps and to be honest I have no idea what is the perfect crossover point for any of these drivers.
The beauty of the betas is the price and flexibility with screw-ons I totally recommend them if you are a skilled crossover assembly designer, you will have a lot of fun but don’t expect flat response. Expect concert sound. Large dynamic, engaging. But with some artifacts.
The 10” is smooth and forgiving easy sounding and I’m very pleased with my design, I enjoy them much more than any other speaker I have had probably a lot to do with the high sensitivity paper cone which gives concert sound even at low levels. Bass is great. Midrange a little bumpy but I’m fine with it. I love the coax coherence point source, works great at any distance.
The 12” on the other hand require more work, it’s a little rough sounding especially in the mids, I believe it has a higher potential as a pro speaker and it can play seriously loud and have a stronger bass but it my box doesn’t go as deep, I plan to build a larger front port cabinet and custom crossover to get the max of this maybe 70l.
Of all the HF drivers I tried I like PSD2002 the most. I’m considering to get PSD2013 as well when starting over with the 12” new cabinet and custom xo but I need to play around some more with the HF as these are also somewhat bumpy and very different sounding. I hope to do some measurement to record my finding a little less subjective and biased before I start any upgrades. I’m also considering DSP here.
HOWEVER....
There is a new 12” from Eminence; Kappalite kL-3012cx. It’s looks like a dramatically improved driver all together with its smoother response, higher power handling, and die cast aluminum casket and neo magnet. I’m so tempted to buy it for my upgrade project with PSD2013 however there is still very little reviews and the price is 3x where there is a lot more competition from BMS, B&C, Faital etc. so I’m not sure, and with 1” throat I might still have the same HF bumps and to be honest I have no idea what is the perfect crossover point for any of these drivers.
The beauty of the betas is the price and flexibility with screw-ons I totally recommend them if you are a skilled crossover assembly designer, you will have a lot of fun but don’t expect flat response. Expect concert sound. Large dynamic, engaging. But with some artifacts.
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There's a pair of powered V12 monitors for sale locally but $650 seems a bit risky to then end up with amps and probably a cabinet to get rid of.
I read your threads as well and was looking forward to the results of your CD evaluations. That's great feedback. If I stick to beta, the 10cx sounds like the safest bet.
I did see the Kappa. IIRC, DIYSG's Vortex12 is perhaps a customized version of this driver. I think they call it the Hyperlite. I agree the price difference is significant.
Get a pair of KEF Q150 or similar , ditch the box and crossover and mate it to a 8 in woofer n enjoy. The KEF Q is a very good coaxial but need a steeper slope low pass filter to reduce the high frquency Aluminium cone resonace that is typcal of almost all metal cones speakers. I actually was very dissapointed by the sound from the KEF on first listen . I you don,t like it you can alway sell them off. I notice used KEF is actually very sought after.
To be honest I believe the 12” is a better driver but I build a too small of a cabinet and use the wrong crossover. The 2,5cx filter seems really build for the 10” and ASD1001. If I go with DSP bi-amping and a 70l box I’m sure the 12” will fill my living room with at least twice the low end dynamic headroom and outperform the 10” by a dozen. Yet the 10” works great at my PC desk for near field with its smooth and warm non tiring sound.
i have played some with 12cx with apt-50-3 and 12cx with celestion cdx1-1446. apt-50 sounds very poor and cdx1-1446 has a poor fit to the 12cx but sounds very good otherwise. cx12 sounds rather poor to me with no resolution at all and i missed a lot of details, to me this is a very tasteless driver.
i have also played some with sb acoustics sb16pfc coax and seas t18rex coax and they sounds a lot better to my ears, but they are not without flaws and i do think you can do better with seperated drivers. the only coaxial drivers that really do look good on paper are genelec's and some kef's, and for pa use the b&c 12fcx76
i have also played some with sb acoustics sb16pfc coax and seas t18rex coax and they sounds a lot better to my ears, but they are not without flaws and i do think you can do better with seperated drivers. the only coaxial drivers that really do look good on paper are genelec's and some kef's, and for pa use the b&c 12fcx76
I totally agree the APT50 was the worst. I think it’s meant for >5k in a 3-way. What crossover did you have for the 12cx? I’m sure how low the 1” horn allow but I think the 12cx must be cutoff hard at 1500 to sound good. So therefore a serious HF driver is required to overlap but it might be the coax horn itself is the limitation for the midrange performance. Of course it will never sound as smooth as a 7” seas that’s not the point of PA drivers.
Volt loudspeakers fr or cx 220.1 fantastic with crossovers just add box Pair for sale on pink fish media diy classifieds
That Faital 6,5 coax + 8 build looks totally awesome. But I guess it cost twice or triple the budget for OPs projects. For 500 a pair 12" there might not be so many options than Eminence, maybe some P.Audio.
He said $500 for drivers.
Over here the Faital co-axial costs £130 each and the woofer £40 so £340 or $475 for the lot.
Over here the Faital co-axial costs £130 each and the woofer £40 so £340 or $475 for the lot.
i tried varios crossovers and all optimized for an even power response
very true, but i had hoped that a larger driver with higher directivity could gain some, but this 12cx where just too poor sounding
strange im not of the same impression, yes its rough in the 2kHz but other than that I really like its sound, large direct sensitive. Have you broken it in loud and long enough? Maybe im just not as picky with my music preference the mids are not that important. It definitely reminds me of a club sound more than hifi, which was what I was looking for anyway.
In my experience quality PA drivers are usually superior to HiFi drivers like SEAS ie lower distortion, higher power capacity etc. I only use tweeters from HiFi manufacturers these days.
i can not say for sure, i thought it to be waste of my time working with these so i moved forward
just to refresh my memory i connected one of my sb16coax speakers to one of the channels so i could do some quick comparison to my current speakers, sb16coax sounds rather nice but colored
Hard to find used locally. I see them on eBay in the 300-400 range which isn't too bad.
I missed that one but as has been pointed out the 2021 price of the Faital nearly disqualifies it and it doesn't seem that viable as a two way. I do have a pair of M-frame dipole subs each with a pair of AE Dipole12 but these currently live in the basement so bringing the coax upstairs would be hassle in the short term.
Solen.ca lists these for $450CAD each! about $350USD. Look neat.
Seems kind of a shame about the Eminence Kappalite 12CX. I see them changing hands among bass players but not much else. I don't know if it's due to the pandemic but they don't seem to be popular. Would they make a decent woofer with a dedicated waveguide? That could provide a plan B. I'd like to try an econowave or Pi 3/4 soon.
The Kappalite and 12cx isn't the same driver so you might misunderstood our discussion above. Out discussion was on the Beta 12CX which is a 90USD driver on the marked for a decade at least, tons of review and data, while the Kappalite 3012CX is 250USD and brand new no reviews. The Beta is known to have struggles with midrange due to its resonance peak around 2,6kHz right where the CD is suppose to take over. The Kappalite may not suffer from these looking at the specs but who knows at this point. Im not going to be the first one to try it here at that price but here is a thread with some pictures using the Selenium most seems to be happy with the beta 10cx (but not me):
Kappalite coaxials!! | TalkBass.com
https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/kl3015cx-cab-fbr-half-jpg.3721546/
Kappalite coaxials!! | TalkBass.com
https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/kl3015cx-cab-fbr-half-jpg.3721546/
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