Isn't that generally understood just as it is generally understood we compare a best case against a best case not a best case against a worst case?
We know humans -- universally, unless they have a hearing problem -- can instantly identify the difference between a live instrument performance such as a trumpet and a two channel stereo recording. Speech and vocals are even more obvious due to human evolution.
As I said before, how would people react if a company like Harman claimed their two channel stereo speakers were better than live? We'd all laugh. But then Harman comes along and says, "well, we meant our speakers sound better than a really bad live performance."
Probably not, but it would be hard to tell without knowing the environment they were created in. They probably didn't use Open Baffle either, but that doesn't mean it would be a disadvantage to use that in your listening environment. Chances are pretty big it wasn't Horns or Arrays either.
The LEDE concept has been used in studios, with Haas kickers. The studio world seems to have abandoned it for other concepts, but reading the reasons why it was largely abandoned made me add it instead. I don't need a studio environment for my enjoyment, I want a pleasing listening environment. The two aren't the same in my book.
I'm much more worried about more and more music being created in what they call: "Home Studio's". Every artist seems to have something like that these days. I favor the old studio's one had to book for recording over these new ways.
The LEDE concept in a few simple words:
To me, these are the properties I was after for creating a pleasing home listening environment. It may not suit everyone, but it could be fun to find out
.
Last edited:
Well, having seen some TV shows of her, I think a Madonna recording at home sounds better than being at her live show
.Even her best Live gig up against her best recording, I'd choose the save way. I'm not paying to go see that!
(seems to have gotten worse over the years too)
Disclaimer: I'm certainly not a Madonna fan, far from it actually, but I have to admit a handful of her recordings were quite the surprise!
Ah, I see. When you said no one is agreeing with me you meant some people are disagreeing with me. And even though the people who agree with me are widely recognized subject matter experts they said things that hurt the feelings of your favorite amplifiers so they are suspect.
I don't think you'll get a paywall with this link.
New lab mimics the sound of any room -- ScienceDaily
And despite already having the back energy of the OB's, even he added surround channels...
Surround stereo system
And for entirely different reasons the Watson's:
WATSON-Stereo_Expansion_Loudspeakers
Last edited:
Streaming services will recreate the music in their catalogs. Sooner rather than later because streaming music services have grown so quickly, the streaming service providers also speakers speakers/voice assistants, and -- most importantly -- the streaming services have the necessary computational expertise.
For example, Deep Mind is owned by Google.
I argue in favor of what the scientists who study the subject say. You interpret that as me thinking I know more than you. But consider this alternative: you think you know more than the people who spent decades of their professional lives studying the subject at the world's top labs.
If you have a problem with me personally I think a better approach is to explain to me how I have misunderstood the experts and/or research. Post sources and provide clear explanation that others can understand even if I can't. Everyone wins.
I'm glad you commented and I see you having lots of fun listening and thinking. I'm hoping more people reveal some of their thinking in the thread and there has already been some who have gone a bit deeper in their posts than usual.
I've had as much joy from a kitchen radio as any system, it is just the right thing for some moments. Good living room system is just another set of joyful moments! I wonder what kind of night time system would work?
He added surround channels earlier when he was using his Orions. It isn't clear from the website whether he continued using surrounds when he moved to the LX521s instead of the Orions.
So there is no easy way to know for sure whether surrounds were still useful with the much improved LX521s. If someone here knows the answer it would be interesting to hear about it.
Preferences are often temporary, a change can be perceived as an improvement, for a while, particularly if you are obsessed with how a sound might change if you do a particular thing, this is the curse of the tweaker.
He did say that he was happy enough with the LX521 that he didn't feel the need to do anything else.Thanks for the link to the article on B&O being able to recreate the acoustics of any room in their sound lab. It’s very interesting and essentially proves the point that I’ve been making all along. That you can’t recreate a recording’s live venue in your living room.
B&O spent thousands, perhaps millions, of dollars plus a tremendous amount of engineering time to build a facility that could accurately emulate the sonic characteristics of any venue. From a car to a large symphony hall and everything between. It took a large anechoic chamber with 40 speakers and very sophisticated electronics and algorithms to do it.
So any idea that you can do the same thing in your home with a few extra surround speakers and a conventional amplifier is absurd. As I’ve said before – it isn’t going to happen.
Now what you can do is use additional surround speakers and various electronic signal manipulations to create a feeling of spaciousness, or immersion if you want to call it that.
It’s phony, but it might be enjoyable to some people. Maybe not to others. That’s an individual thing. But you can’t claim that it universally and magically transports the listener into the original recording venue. That is unless your listening room is an exact replica of the B&O facility. Then you could claim it. But not otherwise.
The problem is, stereo is a mind trick. So that ain't real either.
I do what I do because my room is small. I hide the room (using absorption) and use speakers to re-create virtual queues of a ''bigger/better space. Inspired by member Werewolf/Lycan way back in time on another forum and by the works of Griesinger. If you get it right, you won't notice they are there. But my place never sounded better. I do use other trickery as well, main goal: more satisfying sound, more gratifying listening experience. I won't force it upon anyone, I merely shared the story. By all means: do as you please.
It hasn't been a passing phase for me though (no pun intended). I've been using it for 5 years now. One of my more successful experiments really. I don't regret it or the time spend on it as it was a lot of fun to experiment with and got me pleasing results. To not hurt anyone's feelings I'll call it MyFi, not HiFi.
It does sound way better to me than my prior experiments without room treatment. Which was the point really.
I treat my setup as a learning opportunity, do many crazy experiments to learn from, not nearly all of them are successful. Most are based on an idea about perception etc. + some simulation tweaks or inspiration like for example the Linkwitz Watson, Ambiophonics, BACCH, Lexicon papers etc. It is there, I can play with it. Hopefully learn something. I stick with a concept I believe in, trying to better it, in my room. I don't sell anything so I don't have to make speakers that are pleasing in any environment, just have to please myself in my environment. I see my room + speakers as a system. Adjusting them to play nice together.
I do what I do because my room is small. I hide the room (using absorption) and use speakers to re-create virtual queues of a ''bigger/better space. Inspired by member Werewolf/Lycan way back in time on another forum and by the works of Griesinger. If you get it right, you won't notice they are there. But my place never sounded better. I do use other trickery as well, main goal: more satisfying sound, more gratifying listening experience. I won't force it upon anyone, I merely shared the story. By all means: do as you please.
It hasn't been a passing phase for me though (no pun intended). I've been using it for 5 years now. One of my more successful experiments really. I don't regret it or the time spend on it as it was a lot of fun to experiment with and got me pleasing results. To not hurt anyone's feelings I'll call it MyFi, not HiFi.
It does sound way better to me than my prior experiments without room treatment. Which was the point really.
I treat my setup as a learning opportunity, do many crazy experiments to learn from, not nearly all of them are successful. Most are based on an idea about perception etc. + some simulation tweaks or inspiration like for example the Linkwitz Watson, Ambiophonics, BACCH, Lexicon papers etc. It is there, I can play with it. Hopefully learn something. I stick with a concept I believe in, trying to better it, in my room. I don't sell anything so I don't have to make speakers that are pleasing in any environment, just have to please myself in my environment. I see my room + speakers as a system. Adjusting them to play nice together.
Last edited:
To not hurt anyone's feelings I'll call it MyFi, not HiFi.
Very wise, there are an inordinate number of (over)sensitive souls around here
Yeah, I recognize that we typically have larger rooms in the US than in some other places. But in my case it doesn’t really help. Our living room and family room are nice size, but just don’t work for listening to music. I’ve tried the living room, but would have to sit in the middle of the coffee table to get it right.
So after some negotiation with the CEO I’ve commandeered a bedroom. Problem is that it’s rather small. Only 11 x 12 feet with an 8 foot ceiling. Far from ideal for what I want to do, but that’s it for now.
More important, however, is the point that you make for general discussion. Namely, that room size is a major factor in what we do. It’s sometimes brought up in the conversation, but many times overlooked entirely. So what might work well for one person would be terrible for another due to their difference in listening room size. If it’s not part of the discussion, then any conclusions may be pretty much worthless.
With regard to speakers not being CD that's one of the things I'm hoping to overcome by trying open baffle. Don't know how it's going to work out, because this is still a small room. But it's easy enough and cheap enough to give it a try.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.