I’m going to build a sealed enclosure with a single full range driver in it for a desktop nearfield audio mixing monitor. An incidental bonus would be a driver that has a ported enclosure size that’s close enough to allow experimenting in the same enclosure but this is not necessary. I’m good at woodworking. I prefer paper and if not then poly. I have been looking at some of the usual suspects: tang band, foster, Mark audio, Dayton audio, visition, etc. after 40 years of rock guitar my hearing is shot above 10k so that doesn’t matter much in this case although some of these speakers have pretty impressive upper extension.
What choices have worked out well for you guys and given the best results?
Thanks,
George
What choices have worked out well for you guys and given the best results?
Thanks,
George
Almost all of my favorite speakers are sealed enclosure. I appreciate the bass extension of a ported design and I have built a few but my brain does not appear to like the bass behavior in most ported designs. Maybe its got something to do with my taste being formed in the 70's when AR et al ruled the world. I'm playing around with tuning on older projects to see if I can get it "right" but for this simple project I want to remove that variable if possible. I want to experiment with a very simple point source system with no electrical compensation if possible although I don't know if room gain through placement can properly offset the lack of BSC. I seem to be zeroing in on a Tangband selection like say the W5-2143.
George
George
I don't know what your budget is, but I saw where someone more knowledgable than I suggested a design with a speaker on the front of the enclosure and one on the back to overcome the BSC issue.
I don't know how low you're looking to go, but it will be interesting to see what comes out of this thread.
Have you considered passive radiators, or are they too close to a ported design?
Mike
I don't know how low you're looking to go, but it will be interesting to see what comes out of this thread.
Have you considered passive radiators, or are they too close to a ported design?
Mike
I would like to try a passive radiator design at some point. I think its on page 403 of my technical to do list. LOL.
George
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George
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Some thoughts:
- For desktop/computer systems, I'd probably use sealed boxes by default. Add some EQ (Equaliser APO works well) at the computer, and you can effectively apply a Linkwitz Transform, which uses extra power (and associated excursion from the driver) to improve low-end extension.
- Passive radiators can work in that situation, but you'll need to implement a protective highpass filter to stop the main driver bottoming out. The PR will restrict the main cone's excursion aound the tuning frequency, which is a bonus.
Chris
- For desktop/computer systems, I'd probably use sealed boxes by default. Add some EQ (Equaliser APO works well) at the computer, and you can effectively apply a Linkwitz Transform, which uses extra power (and associated excursion from the driver) to improve low-end extension.
- Passive radiators can work in that situation, but you'll need to implement a protective highpass filter to stop the main driver bottoming out. The PR will restrict the main cone's excursion aound the tuning frequency, which is a bonus.
Chris
I've been looking at doing something similar for a TV speaker bar and have been reading very good reviews here for the Faital 3FE22. It uses a Neo magnet and the FR curve is excellent. It's only $33 at PE. I'll probably go to the next size up, 4FE32, just to get a little more bass.
Just found some more reviews that talked about somewhat high distortion. I guess this and its 3FE22 cousin are considered Pro Audio products. Not sure now about its applicability to high fidelity audio.
I did build a sealed box for the Mark Audio 10.3 that works very well. That is a metal cone but the paper cone variation should work also in that space. I got a good response out of it to (F6) 63Hz on it's own but i do use it in a waw config with a 10" woofer.
But the best driver i know for this would be (in sims) the Mark Audio Alpair 12PW, in a 20L sealed it goes to F6 of 55Hz and can get this fairly loud before running out of steam (xmax) at 98dB. Not many fullrange drivers can do that as they are mostly limited by xmax, wich is very important in a sealed config. The topend of that driver is not that accurate, but you say that is not important. It's relative flat from FS to about 10kHz and then the response curve slowly goes down. This would probally be what you're after.
In general you will need a bigger fullrange, 3 or 4" drivers just won't do it as they are mainly build to be used in quarter wave cabinets and use those cabinets to get extention down. Sealed you won't get much below 100 to 200hz (depending on the model) as they don't have the cone surface and xmax for that.
But the best driver i know for this would be (in sims) the Mark Audio Alpair 12PW, in a 20L sealed it goes to F6 of 55Hz and can get this fairly loud before running out of steam (xmax) at 98dB. Not many fullrange drivers can do that as they are mostly limited by xmax, wich is very important in a sealed config. The topend of that driver is not that accurate, but you say that is not important. It's relative flat from FS to about 10kHz and then the response curve slowly goes down. This would probally be what you're after.
In general you will need a bigger fullrange, 3 or 4" drivers just won't do it as they are mainly build to be used in quarter wave cabinets and use those cabinets to get extention down. Sealed you won't get much below 100 to 200hz (depending on the model) as they don't have the cone surface and xmax for that.
They are very fit for hifi, and are used by a lot of people for that. It's not because the brand is mainly targeting for pro audio that their drivers can't be fit for hifi also. See also Eminence, Beyma, Fane, B&C, ... that are used a lot for that. And some major designers for hifi are using them (like Troels Gravensen).
Reading up on the specs of the Faital four-inch variant, I tend to agree with "waxx" as the low-end performance is truly poor, rolling 27 Db down by the time it gets to 20 hertz.
The likes of a five inch seems to cross that threshold into a more conventional enclosure, an easier implementation.
Might I suggest a foray into "vintage" full-range drivers as they perform just fine at ten-cents to the dollar for the drivers.
I submit my foray into this, a ten dollar NIB driver & lots of research from others, trying to get the maximum performance. Radio Shack 40-1284E five inch, 0.6 cubic feet, f3@47 hertz...240mm wide, 285mm deep, 410mm high.
The likes of a five inch seems to cross that threshold into a more conventional enclosure, an easier implementation.
Might I suggest a foray into "vintage" full-range drivers as they perform just fine at ten-cents to the dollar for the drivers.
I submit my foray into this, a ten dollar NIB driver & lots of research from others, trying to get the maximum performance. Radio Shack 40-1284E five inch, 0.6 cubic feet, f3@47 hertz...240mm wide, 285mm deep, 410mm high.
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There is a big difference in distortion compared to something like a ScanSpeak 10F. Here is a link to some actual measurements:
small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00 -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
I don't personally think the difference in cost is worth the compromise in sound quality. Others may disagree. But it's enough for me to drop the Faital from my list of possible drivers to use.
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In that same tread it's already said that the test is not legit as both drivers were not measured on the same level, The Faital was measured at a way higher volume which off course raises the volume much higher. Standard testing is at the same volume (90dB) to compare drivers on distortion.
But even then the scanspeak is a little bit lower, and it should if you compare prices (scanspeak is much more expensive), but the faital is not that bad as this flawed test suggest.
The Alpair 10P looks interesting because in the published response curve there is a dip towards 1K hz in the baffle step region so this driver may be reasonable with no electrical compensation. I have no experience however with glass impregnated paper as a cone material.
George
The A10p is a darling of those with the low power SE amps, but it works well with any good amp. It does have a vintage top, not as rolled off as the A12pw thou).
The A10.2 is actually the bass king sealed. 7-10 litres IIRC and reaching down below 60 Hz. Not as smooth or with quite a high DDR as the A10.3 but a very good driver. You’d likley have to find some used. I have a pair set up this way.
Glass impregnated? I have had many thru here, talked to Mark about the cone manufacture… and no hint of glass.
dave
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Actually only 2db SPL difference. Not way higher volume. Reading through the entire thread there are some who think that it doesn't really make any substantial difference in the distortion measurements.
I might just have to give these Markaudi's a try because your garage looks just like mine. "sound treatments" everywhere and no room for a car. lol.
George
"Glass impregnated? I have had many thru here, talked to Mark about the cone manufacture… and no hint of glass.
dave"
"The cone is the most radical shallow design Markaudio has produced for this size of driver. To maintain its stability, the materials used include an arrangement of glass reinforced fibres."
George
dave"
"The cone is the most radical shallow design Markaudio has produced for this size of driver. To maintain its stability, the materials used include an arrangement of glass reinforced fibres."
George
"The A10.2 is actually the bass king sealed. 7-10 litres IIRC and reaching down below 60 Hz. Not as smooth or with quite a high DDR as the A10.3 but a very good driver. You’d likley have to find some used. I have a pair set up this way."
I have been researching and can't find anything being made today that would have this level of f3 roll off. They really were the bass kings.
George
I have been researching and can't find anything being made today that would have this level of f3 roll off. They really were the bass kings.
George