Hello guys,
I want to build my first own speaker and thought a Full Range Driver would be a good place to start since I would not have to design complex crossovers but rather only a notch filter/ baffle step.
I wanted to ask for some advice on what driver could fit my needs.
Currently I own a Sonos One which Sound I like but I hear so much music I thought upgrading would be a good idea.
I mostly listen to HipHop / Electronic but also Indie-Rock, if you want to know artists / albums to get a better idea let me know.
My room is 15m² big which would be around 160 ft².
Hearing distance is around 3-4m since the speakers will be under / besides my TV and my bed is that far away.
I read about some Tang Band Drivers and am really interested in the W8-2145 although I mostly read it is good for vocals / instrumentals which is why I think it might not fit my needs, what do you guys thinks? Does anyone of you own it and could report about it?
I want to build my first own speaker and thought a Full Range Driver would be a good place to start since I would not have to design complex crossovers but rather only a notch filter/ baffle step.
I wanted to ask for some advice on what driver could fit my needs.
Currently I own a Sonos One which Sound I like but I hear so much music I thought upgrading would be a good idea.
I mostly listen to HipHop / Electronic but also Indie-Rock, if you want to know artists / albums to get a better idea let me know.
My room is 15m² big which would be around 160 ft².
Hearing distance is around 3-4m since the speakers will be under / besides my TV and my bed is that far away.
I read about some Tang Band Drivers and am really interested in the W8-2145 although I mostly read it is good for vocals / instrumentals which is why I think it might not fit my needs, what do you guys thinks? Does anyone of you own it and could report about it?
Fane 12-250TC + 1
I use a pair in a sealed box and they sound great. And no cross overs to worry about.
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/FANE-SOVEREIGN-12250TC-DS141117.pdf
I use a pair in a sealed box and they sound great. And no cross overs to worry about.
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/FANE-SOVEREIGN-12250TC-DS141117.pdf
W5-2143 in XKi sounds really good for hip hop. My daughter uses it for hip hop in her dance studio. The studio was probably larger than 40 Sq meters and it was still satisfyingly loud.
I don’t have personal experience with the W8 version of this driver but it would certainly be able to get louder. The nice thing with this particular W5-2143 is the real deep bass and yet the mids ans highs are still there.
XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
They can go deep with bass beats and can get pretty loud too.
Here they are in action before I stained them. You can see they were rocking away with some hip hop:
Plans:
I don’t have personal experience with the W8 version of this driver but it would certainly be able to get louder. The nice thing with this particular W5-2143 is the real deep bass and yet the mids ans highs are still there.
XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
They can go deep with bass beats and can get pretty loud too.
Here they are in action before I stained them. You can see they were rocking away with some hip hop:
Plans:
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For the sort of music you're into, I'd skip full-range drivers entirely.
IMO, it's very important to have a smooth kHz range, and the Fane units particularly don't have that. They're very rough, and while you can get away with that for some genres of music, other genres are rendered unenjoyable at best.
Most full-range drivers have limited LF extension and output: for you, I'd want something that'll hit 30Hz with some authority, and there are few full-range units in the world that'll manage that.
My advice, then, would be to find a 2- or 3-way design published online, and build that.
FWIW, if you're absolutely stuck with full-range drivers, the Mark Audio Alpair 12P was pretty good the last time I heard them. IIRC they'll need big boxes (ML-TLs, perhaps) to dig deep.
Chris
IMO, it's very important to have a smooth kHz range, and the Fane units particularly don't have that. They're very rough, and while you can get away with that for some genres of music, other genres are rendered unenjoyable at best.
Most full-range drivers have limited LF extension and output: for you, I'd want something that'll hit 30Hz with some authority, and there are few full-range units in the world that'll manage that.
My advice, then, would be to find a 2- or 3-way design published online, and build that.
FWIW, if you're absolutely stuck with full-range drivers, the Mark Audio Alpair 12P was pretty good the last time I heard them. IIRC they'll need big boxes (ML-TLs, perhaps) to dig deep.
Chris
That is what I thought about the Fane too. They seem to go up at 1khz which I think is said to be fatiguing to the ears.
That is also why the Tang Band seemed interesting. The W8 seems pretty flat besides a peak at 15khz and I am also okay with building a bigger box, I actually looked into their enclosure suggestion SUG1-24 which I like the looks of.
Those look pretty good actually! Ill look further into the driver, maybe with a different enclosure since I think the XKi looks quite ugly.
Another important information might be that I dont want to listen to them very loud often, rather slightly above indoor volume most of the time.
Just a bass reflex with the same size slot vent and rear chamber volume would work. Use the BSC though.
Not the Fane (a bit ragged on top and little xmax), you need a driver that is reasonable flat with a good xmax.
Mark Audio does have that, most others don't (inclusive the TB W8-2145). The Alpair 11MS is a good one, or the Alpair 10.3M or Alpair 10P. But those are rather expensive.
The Mark Audio CHN110 promises a lot, and i'm building an MLTL for it that should be good also if my calculations are right. Scottmoose got a design for it that could work also...
In general, a subwoofer will add a lot to bass heavy music like what you listen to, so maybe a multiway design is better, or at least easier to do for this. But i listen to hiphop and dub on fullrange drivers also, on one setup with a subwoofer in a woofer assisted wideband config (basicly a 2 way with a fullrange and a (sub)woofer and a low crossover between them). I use the Mark Audio Alpair 10.3M in ported boxes and in an other setup the same driver but sealed and with a scanspeak subwoofer under it.
But the easiest and cheapest build that more or less will fit your music will be the MLTL that Scottmoose made with the CHN110 (ask him for it). I simmed it and it should go below 40Hz and the driver has a good response over the whole spectrum and very good xmax for such a small driver. I'm making an own variation of it but don't have designed plans yet as i'm just starting the first test build...
Mark Audio does have that, most others don't (inclusive the TB W8-2145). The Alpair 11MS is a good one, or the Alpair 10.3M or Alpair 10P. But those are rather expensive.
The Mark Audio CHN110 promises a lot, and i'm building an MLTL for it that should be good also if my calculations are right. Scottmoose got a design for it that could work also...
In general, a subwoofer will add a lot to bass heavy music like what you listen to, so maybe a multiway design is better, or at least easier to do for this. But i listen to hiphop and dub on fullrange drivers also, on one setup with a subwoofer in a woofer assisted wideband config (basicly a 2 way with a fullrange and a (sub)woofer and a low crossover between them). I use the Mark Audio Alpair 10.3M in ported boxes and in an other setup the same driver but sealed and with a scanspeak subwoofer under it.
But the easiest and cheapest build that more or less will fit your music will be the MLTL that Scottmoose made with the CHN110 (ask him for it). I simmed it and it should go below 40Hz and the driver has a good response over the whole spectrum and very good xmax for such a small driver. I'm making an own variation of it but don't have designed plans yet as i'm just starting the first test build...
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My guess is those that question the Fane 12-250tc have never heard one, they are directional on the high end but they have a realism in the reproduction of music that is hard to match, they are superb full range drivers and very dynamic with it, depending on box size then 35Hz is well within reach at realistic levels, being a 12". Also they appear to be no more ragged in the HF than the alpair.
Just goes to show, one man's 'realism' is another man's 'unlistenable'.
I've heard those Fanes on a number of occasions. Ear-piercing to put it mildly, even well off axis, to the point where it felt like my auditory canals were being reamed out with a power-drill and I had to exit the the room. An accurate representation of what was recorded it certainly is not, so if you want a big-speaker sound (and why not) this isn't an approach I would personally recommend, although I know they have their fans, including my good friend Steve who often posts here.
I've heard those Fanes on a number of occasions. Ear-piercing to put it mildly, even well off axis, to the point where it felt like my auditory canals were being reamed out with a power-drill and I had to exit the the room. An accurate representation of what was recorded it certainly is not, so if you want a big-speaker sound (and why not) this isn't an approach I would personally recommend, although I know they have their fans, including my good friend Steve who often posts here.
I generally agree with Scott on that one. Although I didn't find them quite as objectionable, they certainly need steps taking to level out the broad strokes of the frequency response. Even then, the kHz range is still fairly "coarse".
I also spent a while with the 15" versions, which had similar issues. I also noted the peaks and dips changed places as you move off-axis, so it's difficult to do much except apply broad-band EQ. Flattening them out properly simply wasn't gonna happen.
In terms of LF output, you'll need EQ or a really really big box to get any real LF extension out of them. Hoffman's Iron Law strikes again.
IME, a boosted kHz range often sets off sounding "realistic", but quickly turns to "fatiguing".
Chris
I also spent a while with the 15" versions, which had similar issues. I also noted the peaks and dips changed places as you move off-axis, so it's difficult to do much except apply broad-band EQ. Flattening them out properly simply wasn't gonna happen.
In terms of LF output, you'll need EQ or a really really big box to get any real LF extension out of them. Hoffman's Iron Law strikes again.
IME, a boosted kHz range often sets off sounding "realistic", but quickly turns to "fatiguing".
Chris
Check Visaton Solo 50 project with B200 driver. Two chamber bass reflex with adjustable bass response by adding more or less damping material. Vent is on the back but you can easilly move it to the front if placement is against the wall. Also, baffle step filter is already designed if you want one.
The TB W2145 in the Cobra Horn as devellopped by german Hobby Hifi.
The driver is quite inexpensive for an 8" fullrange, does the job well with
just a simple filter and well will have bass enough.
--> Cobra-Horn 2
In german though, but doesn't matter too much. When you buy the kit you'll
get the plans.
The driver is quite inexpensive for an 8" fullrange, does the job well with
just a simple filter and well will have bass enough.
--> Cobra-Horn 2
In german though, but doesn't matter too much. When you buy the kit you'll
get the plans.
I liked the w8-2145.
I have 2 more for big sealeds project being built as we speak.
But 1 listener at 7'.
I also liked the fane 250tc, after i eq'd down the 1-4khz range and then sat off axis..........
But you say big room, 3-4m away.
If you want bass, i don't think full range drivers will make you happy in the long run.
The bass will make the mids sound like they are gargling.
I have 2 more for big sealeds project being built as we speak.
But 1 listener at 7'.
I also liked the fane 250tc, after i eq'd down the 1-4khz range and then sat off axis..........
But you say big room, 3-4m away.
If you want bass, i don't think full range drivers will make you happy in the long run.
The bass will make the mids sound like they are gargling.
If you don't mind using a sub, you'd have a lot more choice. I think for hip-hop a sub is really helpful in general, plus you'd gain a lot more headroom on the main speakers as they won't have to play all the bass. I know subs aren't loved by everyone, but for me they bring a lot of benefits.
The current generation of Mark Audio Alpair spiderless drivers are very smooth and they don't seem to get confused when music gets complex or busy like most full range drivers. They somehow figure out the detail in music. New technology is good stuff. Most people would probably be happy with an 11ms or 7ms in a good cabinet or combine a 7ms or Alpair 5.3 with a helper woofer if you're into that. My preference is to keep things simple.
Looks like the suggested filter is a BSC with 1mH and 3.9ohm in parallel and 4.7uF film cap bypass. On my W5-2143 I use 1mH and 4.7ohm maybe I should try a bypass film for some more top end.