btw, my favorite Eminence 12cx are the ones they made years ago. The 80oz and 109oz models were pretty good. The heavier model had a real 4.6mm xmax, but the 80oz model with small overhang and edgewound coil, more sensitivity. The 4 inch coil model has mms ~53g -sounded very nice with Fritz Wunderlich lieder recital. Eminence also needs to slap another pound of ferrite on their meh 12LTA. Didn't G.A. Briggs say something to the effect "If your speakers sound like mouses - they need more Gausses..." ??? 😀
https://i.imgur.com/toEmnBg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EK8jx6L.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/toEmnBg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EK8jx6L.jpg
IMHO it have to be a big diffrenece between 12/10/6,5" drivers.
What I don't like at this PA speakers is that in most cases you have to use some bass unit under it, becouse of "sattelite" big voltage sensitivity 96dB/2,83V/1m and more (without bafflestep compensation). Also I think achievable SPL for this high sensitivity drivers is little bit overkill, when considering home use...I prefer acitve crossovering in this case.
What I don't like at this PA speakers is that in most cases you have to use some bass unit under it, becouse of "sattelite" big voltage sensitivity 96dB/2,83V/1m and more (without bafflestep compensation). Also I think achievable SPL for this high sensitivity drivers is little bit overkill, when considering home use...I prefer acitve crossovering in this case.
i have not tried the eminence xo design since i do not have the values. but as the tweeter sits so deep, well behind the woofer, the crossover must be asymmetric. to get a good phase tracking the woofer crossover must be of higher order then the tweeter, i think the finnish crossover works quite good with some modifications
NWCgrad's 10” coaxial collaborative design | AVS Forum
Here is a thread about the CX-10 and PSD2013 Eminence compression driver--a 6 pound monster related to the PSD2002 and crossed over at 1,400 to 1,450Hz. They designed/tested and measured both an 8 ohm and 16 ohm version of the compression drivers and designed two different crossovers. A ton of measurements as they measured sealed boxes, ported boxes large and small and I think a PR loaded box snuck in there somewhere.
A great way to kill a few minutes...hours or days--all up to you as it is a long thread. 🙂 It should give you an idea of the bass response in box sizes frm 0.65 cubic feet up to 2 cubic feed or so sealed and ported.
Hope that helps, at least it will throw more chaos into the mix to really add too many options but that is the fun! Have a great day.
Here is a thread about the CX-10 and PSD2013 Eminence compression driver--a 6 pound monster related to the PSD2002 and crossed over at 1,400 to 1,450Hz. They designed/tested and measured both an 8 ohm and 16 ohm version of the compression drivers and designed two different crossovers. A ton of measurements as they measured sealed boxes, ported boxes large and small and I think a PR loaded box snuck in there somewhere.
A great way to kill a few minutes...hours or days--all up to you as it is a long thread. 🙂 It should give you an idea of the bass response in box sizes frm 0.65 cubic feet up to 2 cubic feed or so sealed and ported.
Hope that helps, at least it will throw more chaos into the mix to really add too many options but that is the fun! Have a great day.
Hi celef
FWIW I added an LCLC allpass to one of the "horned" Eminence 12cx's woofer and that, whether optimum, or whatever, made the sound more cohesive.
Was the Finnish network from a blog showing Eminence's 8,10 and 12cx? What does it look like with your modifications ?
my 80oz magnet 12CX sounded very good with Eminence's original phenolic diaphragm APT50 - better than the regular titanium clunker (or the older but smooth "CD8" with aluminum diaphragm model which only made it to 12K5)
FWIW I added an LCLC allpass to one of the "horned" Eminence 12cx's woofer and that, whether optimum, or whatever, made the sound more cohesive.
Was the Finnish network from a blog showing Eminence's 8,10 and 12cx? What does it look like with your modifications ?
my 80oz magnet 12CX sounded very good with Eminence's original phenolic diaphragm APT50 - better than the regular titanium clunker (or the older but smooth "CD8" with aluminum diaphragm model which only made it to 12K5)
Lots of good advice and links here thanks all. I’ll start with a mic and some software measuring the combinations I have available, then do some xo simulation, read some of the other craziness then return in a month or so with my findings.
Thought I may as well link the 12” coax thread as well as the projects go hand in hand.
Eminence Beta 12CX/ASD1001 coaxial upgrade modification options?
Thought I may as well link the 12” coax thread as well as the projects go hand in hand.
Eminence Beta 12CX/ASD1001 coaxial upgrade modification options?
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18Hurts>
Thanks for link to constructive thread. It looks good even there's used smoothing 1/6 octave, this makes disappearing of high Q peaks/notches.
Next "kick" to buy these drivers. I have to check price in Czech republic. 😀
Thanks for link to constructive thread. It looks good even there's used smoothing 1/6 octave, this makes disappearing of high Q peaks/notches.
Next "kick" to buy these drivers. I have to check price in Czech republic. 😀
yes, very minor, and only for the tweeter xo, the large coil is for a slightly better phase tracking
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Very welcome, Martin
I'll be building a pair of them next year for "elevation" atmos surrounds. Basically mounted at the wall ceiling junction as my ceiling is not Atmos friendly (HVAC vents, ceiling fans etc.) That also means they are the furthest away from my ugly skull than all other speakers so I need efficiency to make up for that.
Although I won't be making them for mains, I will configure them with a subwoofer as a 2.1 setup so my idiot brother can determine if he would use them for a basic 5.1 system. Being a concentric coaxial, my idiot brother can mount them upside down, sideways for a center and really make a mess of things so point source is my way of "idiot proofing". Although my brother will drive his AVR into clipping because...idiot sibling does that, the 85 watt power handling and large L-pad should prevent him from breaking things. Figure a 20 liter or 0.7 cubic foot box sealed will protect the 10 incher from hiting Xmax at power under 125 watts. They are surrounds so will be hung on a wall to boost the low end.
Since I am a DIY'er and have not used concentrics outside of car audio--very curious on what the CX10 + PSD2013 can do. I was going to build one this fall by my house roof needs some love. 😱 Oh well, such is life! 😎
In fact, I don't understand people, who listen so loud to music. Voltage sensitivity of 10CX will be around 94-95 dB/2,83V. I don't know listening distance, but getting AVR to clip in this case means broken eardrum. 
And I play drums, I know what does mean loud. 🙂
Which drivers you will use for subwoofer?
And I play drums, I know what does mean loud. 🙂
Which drivers you will use for subwoofer?
i have done some more tweeter crossover work to improve off axis behavior, it is getting better. i also made a very careful level match and did some listening comparsion to a smaller speaker. differencies in the sound field that i before thought where huge sounds suddenly very minor, i may have made a classic mistake attributing sound properties that are actually due to a sound level difference
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I have been playing with the 10cx and selenium combo for a few days now, using just my ears and the few pre assembled crossovers as described in the 12cx thread, including also a variable l-pad which helps a lot. All in all it sounds very different that the 12cx/psd2002 combo. Brighter and more midrange. Quite good actually with the 2k5 crossover. Not at all good with the 1k6 crossover, I experience serious phase issues in vocals, flutes and guitars especially. I think I’ll stick with the 2k5 xo and variable load for this 10cx/selenium combo as it works quite good, and rather try to build a better xo for the 12cx/psd2002 combo which to me seems to have a higher potential after all bigger sound etc. I will not do anything before I have done some measurements of everything though. I want to verify my ears, and the each of the drivers separately and combined. Long road a head.
Some more damping and bass reflex in place, drivers starting to break in, the sound is quite nice to be honest not sure I’m going to bother trying to make a better crossover myself as I’m definitely going to fail at that. Will try on 12” instead 🙂
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may i ask how you pick your tweeters, what characteristics are you looking at? I having hard time finding any useful information about pro audio drivers in general, the voice coil magazine is the only one i know of so far, i do not find datasheets from mfr’s to be very useful
To me it was rather simple at first 5 years ago. I was looking for a cheap diy coaxial to build something to resemble Tannoy Little Red/Gold monitors for my studio to have something more PA to compare with my Genelec nearfields. First thing that came up on google was the Eminence article linked below, and the PDF linked in the article gave some options I chose the cheapest back then when I started this project but as I couldn’t decide on 12 or 10 inch I bought both the Beta CX drivers, but then also with both APT50 and ASD1001. It didn’t make any sense to me choosing anything else back then.
Then I’ve took my time building the boxes, I had a few bad builds and time went on trying to assemble crossovers etc until recently where I bought the matching pre assembled XO from the article. Then just now I wanted to see if it was possible to upgrade the sound further I did some research and bought PSD2002 for the 12” and the Selenium for the 10” based on online reviews in general and the amount of information on this forum and similar pointing in that direction. Specs, local supply and price matters of course so the options of 1” screw-ons wasn’t really that big for me, there was a few Celestion, Fane and P.Audio I considered but the lack of reviews and no mention in any forums made me take those out of the list. I think I have drivers for many years now.
Finding drivers has never been a big issue to me after many years you develop a sixth sense in this matter I feel like I can tell quality just by the looks of it and Eminence have so for not disappointed me. Same with Fane. P.Audio not so much. Box and crossover design however is my challenge. All in all these combos below are proven low risk designs and the optional more expensive CDs require primarily just some additional attenuation.
Using coaxial products for DIY monitors and home hi-fi applications
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_Coax_Use_v1.pdf
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_DIY_Home_Hi-Fi.pdf
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_DIY_StageMonitor.pdf
Then I’ve took my time building the boxes, I had a few bad builds and time went on trying to assemble crossovers etc until recently where I bought the matching pre assembled XO from the article. Then just now I wanted to see if it was possible to upgrade the sound further I did some research and bought PSD2002 for the 12” and the Selenium for the 10” based on online reviews in general and the amount of information on this forum and similar pointing in that direction. Specs, local supply and price matters of course so the options of 1” screw-ons wasn’t really that big for me, there was a few Celestion, Fane and P.Audio I considered but the lack of reviews and no mention in any forums made me take those out of the list. I think I have drivers for many years now.
Finding drivers has never been a big issue to me after many years you develop a sixth sense in this matter I feel like I can tell quality just by the looks of it and Eminence have so for not disappointed me. Same with Fane. P.Audio not so much. Box and crossover design however is my challenge. All in all these combos below are proven low risk designs and the optional more expensive CDs require primarily just some additional attenuation.
Using coaxial products for DIY monitors and home hi-fi applications
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_Coax_Use_v1.pdf
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_DIY_Home_Hi-Fi.pdf
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_DIY_StageMonitor.pdf
thank you! Can you tell how your tweeters differs sonically, and how would you rate them? It would be great if you could share some measurements 🙂
That is the plan but it’s early still I need time, have yet to have done much more than breaking them in and play around with variable l-pad by ear as I don’t have any measuring tools just yet. My ears are playing tricks on me so I’m not sure giving this subjective feedback matter much other than it seems to me these are all quality components with tons of potential given the right crossover.