Hi friends
I am trying to understand section 5 of the article "Better Volume (and Balance) Control — how has the balance-pot to be connected?
Elliott says that conventional pots are good, but how does it work?
thanks again!
david
I am trying to understand section 5 of the article "Better Volume (and Balance) Control — how has the balance-pot to be connected?
Elliott says that conventional pots are good, but how does it work?
thanks again!
david
Thanks, Rodeodave
Wouldn't this just attenuate the signal twice, like in section 3?
It still escapes me 😕
Except if it'd be in dual mono, but then it's useless.
With the switch open, the bal control obviously does nothing.
With the switch closed, and the bal control in the mid position, still it does nothing*.
But with the switch closed and the balance control taken out of mid position, the attenuation/gain of the two channels will be different and the balance will shift.
* except maybe some attenuation or gain depending on the pot values.
Jan
With the switch closed, and the bal control in the mid position, still it does nothing*.
But with the switch closed and the balance control taken out of mid position, the attenuation/gain of the two channels will be different and the balance will shift.
* except maybe some attenuation or gain depending on the pot values.
Jan
Thank you, Jan.
This would be what I'd expect from a balance knob 🙂
But I don't understand what's making the shift, how are the two channels got to be connected to operate in opposite direction? And wouldn't half of the signal go up in smoke?
What am I missing?
My understanding is that if the upper balance pot has the wiper moved upwards, it tends to short out the upper R. There will be less voltage drop over R, thus increasing the output level.
Due to the coupling of the balance wipers, the lower balance pot will have its wiper moved towards ground, tending to short out the lower vol pot. There will be more voltage drop over R, thus decreasing the output.
What's vital is the coupling of the wipers. Antiparallel for the balance pot, parallel for volume. At least that's how I interpret the circuit.
Due to the coupling of the balance wipers, the lower balance pot will have its wiper moved towards ground, tending to short out the lower vol pot. There will be more voltage drop over R, thus decreasing the output.
What's vital is the coupling of the wipers. Antiparallel for the balance pot, parallel for volume. At least that's how I interpret the circuit.
"4-6dB attenuation by R will occur, of course, so you will have to add about 5 or 10 degrees of arc on the volume dial" ESP - A Better Volume Control
All you have todo is write and ask him.
I am sure that he will answer you., Have been in contact with him some years back.
In my eyes there are only 3 ways to make a Balance almost linear so it will not have to a big impact on the signal which has to be passed.
I understand BALANCE and VOLUME to be two "measures" which degrade the quality of any Signal which is passing them,
Because of :
1. Serial Balance and Volume Controls, Cutting the signal Line.
2. Inserting more resistance into the signal line. That's why in earlier days in the late 80'ies were several good Controls created to just cope with these "minor problems of Volume and Balance Controls"
This counts for SERIAL
Volume and BALANCE CONTROLS, for both of them there could be parallel controls, but almost nobody makes them.
The signal PATH isn't cut, but these are less effective and have to calculated very well that these function properly. and of course the Circuit prior to these control must be designed for it as well. and all of them should be Low impedance, i.e not more than 5Kohm, which sometime isn't welcomed.
Then the third way would be the digital Balance and Volumes controls, which for me is a no go. The ones you find in DSP circuits. Again here the original signal is processed and this - personally for me is not that what I deserve for good sound Quality. Bur this is only my thoughts,.
Volume and Balance control is ROBBING the signal of Sound Quality. if there is no need to use, then don't use. Unfortunately it's almost a must, except at the input of the POWER AMP.
And if we look at some Power Amps developed by the Master of High End Power Amps then we can see that there also input CPAS are not welcome, if there is no need, because degrading the signal, or say it, building amplifier with the least parts which is possible.
The biggest Question then is, does it make that much difference, with or without Balance. This each listener has to decide by himself.
Write Rod,, he will answer.. he is a very nice guy.
regards from Bern
Chris
I am sure that he will answer you., Have been in contact with him some years back.
In my eyes there are only 3 ways to make a Balance almost linear so it will not have to a big impact on the signal which has to be passed.
I understand BALANCE and VOLUME to be two "measures" which degrade the quality of any Signal which is passing them,
Because of :
1. Serial Balance and Volume Controls, Cutting the signal Line.
2. Inserting more resistance into the signal line. That's why in earlier days in the late 80'ies were several good Controls created to just cope with these "minor problems of Volume and Balance Controls"
This counts for SERIAL
Volume and BALANCE CONTROLS, for both of them there could be parallel controls, but almost nobody makes them.
The signal PATH isn't cut, but these are less effective and have to calculated very well that these function properly. and of course the Circuit prior to these control must be designed for it as well. and all of them should be Low impedance, i.e not more than 5Kohm, which sometime isn't welcomed.
Then the third way would be the digital Balance and Volumes controls, which for me is a no go. The ones you find in DSP circuits. Again here the original signal is processed and this - personally for me is not that what I deserve for good sound Quality. Bur this is only my thoughts,.
Volume and Balance control is ROBBING the signal of Sound Quality. if there is no need to use, then don't use. Unfortunately it's almost a must, except at the input of the POWER AMP.
And if we look at some Power Amps developed by the Master of High End Power Amps then we can see that there also input CPAS are not welcome, if there is no need, because degrading the signal, or say it, building amplifier with the least parts which is possible.
The biggest Question then is, does it make that much difference, with or without Balance. This each listener has to decide by himself.
Write Rod,, he will answer.. he is a very nice guy.
regards from Bern
Chris
the question was just for general interest—most of my amps haven't a balance and I don't miss it.
But this article is so interesting, and has several really juicy proposals that my curiosity got burning. (The balance-solutions, as well as the various ways of getting good logarithmic attenuators)
Right now, I left those methods aside and go with hightech solutions, elma relay attenuator and then the muses kit waiting to be built—maybe...
But this article is so interesting, and has several really juicy proposals that my curiosity got burning. (The balance-solutions, as well as the various ways of getting good logarithmic attenuators)
Right now, I left those methods aside and go with hightech solutions, elma relay attenuator and then the muses kit waiting to be built—maybe...
Well if you look at reality in a balanced (!) way you'll realize the degradation from such things as balance or volume controls is absolutely miniscule (beyond the threshold humans can detect in a double-blind test, except perhaps for noise level), and far below the degradation of any practical output transducer.
And there's the fact most recorded music has gone through a whole set of volume/attenuation/pan/eq controls already, one more isn't going to suddenly become an issue.
Then Mark,
make that Test
Take some regular volume control 100KA which you can buy online, then take a function generator, take an Oscilloscope, Take a Distortion Meter, hook that volume up and pass a 100mv signal - Then just slide with the volume slowly, and measure NOISE, MEASURE LOSS, MEASURE distortion.
I agree with you to some point if you buy ALPS or like wise but also these when used for a long time, will degrade the signal. And it also depends from which material the surface of the Volume Trace and also the wiper is made.
Just my two cents
make that Test
Take some regular volume control 100KA which you can buy online, then take a function generator, take an Oscilloscope, Take a Distortion Meter, hook that volume up and pass a 100mv signal - Then just slide with the volume slowly, and measure NOISE, MEASURE LOSS, MEASURE distortion.
I agree with you to some point if you buy ALPS or like wise but also these when used for a long time, will degrade the signal. And it also depends from which material the surface of the Volume Trace and also the wiper is made.
Just my two cents