Over the last two weeks I've been working on a clean out job, the place was an electronics lab that did work and research for both civilian and military contracts.
From what I can tell, (I'm not being told very much from the people who hired me), the place was active from 1956 to 1992.
The last load I hauled out of there consisted of about 30 large metal drawer cabinets, the kind you store small parts in, each cabinet is dated 3/1944 through 1955 by a brand I've not seen before out of Philadelphia, PA.
The reason I bid on the job was because I needed the cabinets for another project.
To the point here, the cabinets are full of electronic components, Transistors, Resistors, capacitors, etc.
The selection is extensive, with most part numbers being in the thousand quantity or larger.
About 1/4 of the parts lot is electrolytic capacitors, most from Sprague, Mallory, and several others. All are US made. The electrolytics are all axial. The Sprague caps are orange and look fairly normal, the Mallory caps are white, and appear to be made out of a plastic body open on one end filled with some sort of epoxy or resin with a blue writing.
I realize that electrolytic caps degrade over time, I was told that none of these are viable parts and I should just haul all the electrolytic caps to the dump.
I took a handful of the electrolytic caps to a local repair shop that works on TV's and such, and he told me they test fine.
I'm looking for opinions as to whether these could be viable parts or just trash.
Right now I'm looking at a 20ft trailer full of electrolytic caps all new in the box, most likely over 40 years old. None are newer than 30 years old.
From what I can tell, (I'm not being told very much from the people who hired me), the place was active from 1956 to 1992.
The last load I hauled out of there consisted of about 30 large metal drawer cabinets, the kind you store small parts in, each cabinet is dated 3/1944 through 1955 by a brand I've not seen before out of Philadelphia, PA.
The reason I bid on the job was because I needed the cabinets for another project.
To the point here, the cabinets are full of electronic components, Transistors, Resistors, capacitors, etc.
The selection is extensive, with most part numbers being in the thousand quantity or larger.
About 1/4 of the parts lot is electrolytic capacitors, most from Sprague, Mallory, and several others. All are US made. The electrolytics are all axial. The Sprague caps are orange and look fairly normal, the Mallory caps are white, and appear to be made out of a plastic body open on one end filled with some sort of epoxy or resin with a blue writing.
I realize that electrolytic caps degrade over time, I was told that none of these are viable parts and I should just haul all the electrolytic caps to the dump.
I took a handful of the electrolytic caps to a local repair shop that works on TV's and such, and he told me they test fine.
I'm looking for opinions as to whether these could be viable parts or just trash.
Right now I'm looking at a 20ft trailer full of electrolytic caps all new in the box, most likely over 40 years old. None are newer than 30 years old.
They might be interesting for people into vintage stuff. If stored in a dark and dry place, they might be just fine if they are 'reformed' before put to service. Bad 'lytics will measure bad wont they?
But I wouldn't expect to make a lot from old 'lytics, some vintage fanatic will only buy them if filthy cheap. Besides, even if they measure good, they surely can't last as long as when new. There is a limit to how long the seals stay sealed.
Resistors from that era is another story. Carbon comps from such as Allen Bradley are sought after among guitar amp builders, and they can go for a dollar each! Perhaps even more. Of course not if you sell a box of 100, but if you sell bunch of 5 or 10, but what a hastle. Imagine sitting around waiting to sell a handful now and then...
But I wouldn't expect to make a lot from old 'lytics, some vintage fanatic will only buy them if filthy cheap. Besides, even if they measure good, they surely can't last as long as when new. There is a limit to how long the seals stay sealed.
Resistors from that era is another story. Carbon comps from such as Allen Bradley are sought after among guitar amp builders, and they can go for a dollar each! Perhaps even more. Of course not if you sell a box of 100, but if you sell bunch of 5 or 10, but what a hastle. Imagine sitting around waiting to sell a handful now and then...
Your local law may prohibit sending electronic components like electrolytic capacitors to the landfill.
This could be a serious liability issue for you. Think about ebay and large quantities for a flat price.
Early transistors can be valuable, especially Western Electric.
This could be a serious liability issue for you. Think about ebay and large quantities for a flat price.
Early transistors can be valuable, especially Western Electric.
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Hazmat disposal was included in the deal, I just didn't want to send possibly good parts to the scrap grinder.
There are some carbon resistors, but the majority are either loose in bins or marked Motorola. There are some AB resistors but its not the majority of them.
The majority of the electrolytic caps are Sprague, maybe five or 6 pallets of them, the rest are Mallory, with a few other brands mixed in, maybe a pallet or two of 'other' brands.
I don't eBay, too many bad experiences there over the years. I got tired of selling things and getting rocks back in return for a refund.
There are clear plastic trays with Motorola transistor assortments, one p/n that comes to mind is MJ15003.
The Sprague caps are in orange and blue boxes of a one and two dozen each in case lots. To give perspective on the lot so far, I've filled two 20ft containers and still am unloading a third loaded with drawer cabinets. We also bagged and boxed hundreds of small drawer assortments from all sorts of brands. Most are component specific but many appear to be purpose driven assortments, many branded with various name brands, like Fisher, Raytheon, and RCA.
There's also boxes of RCA 2N3055 transistors, each one in an individual little box complete with screws and insulator. The Allen Bradley items are in plastic bags, in tape lots of 1000 and 10,000.
Then there's the 4x4x8" bin cabinets, about 300 cabinets of 16 drawers. Most are component specific but many cabinets are a mix of various components, each drawer filled with a particular part number. Then there are case quantities of all sorts of components I've not even begun to sort through. The parts bins and cabinets are what I intend to keep, mainly the larger steel drawer cabinets, each one being three drawers wide and 10 drawers tall, and each of those is mounted atop two stacked smaller cabinets, four drawers wide five drawers tall, with shallower drawers. Each one mounted on a roller base with 8" iron casters on a hardwood frame.
The lower bins are a mix of components and related hardware, like knobs, buttons, panel lights, LED panels, bulbs, and other various parts.
One cabinet is full of multifunction switches, of all sorts, all salvaged from apparently the same thing. They appear to be from some sort of test equipment.
If I can't find someone who has a use for them they'll likely be the first thing to get scrapped as they have no place in anything audio that I mess with myself.
There's also boxes of various variable resistors, all new, roughly 100 or so of each type. They're pretty heavy duty looking, likely a lot heavier than any audio amp or receiver would have ever used.
I have a guy who will buy the transistors and resistors and any foil or film caps, but I'm not worried about moving them yet. I simply don't want to allocate any storage space to worthless items. Things like that tend to get buried and forgotten taking up space that could be holding something of value.
There's also a full library of tech books on circuit design, component usage, and various engineering manuals. (I filled the back of one of my cube vans with just books). There's also boxes of cross reference and spec books for various components.
If just the transistors are worth what they're asking for the Chinese knockoffs on eBay, I'm likely holding a fair dollar amount of inventory here.
There's also several transistor assortments that are marked 'gold plated' with gold plated leads. Those are all from Mouser with receipts from 1976-79. Many of the Mouser receipts have the original el Cajon address only.
There are some carbon resistors, but the majority are either loose in bins or marked Motorola. There are some AB resistors but its not the majority of them.
The majority of the electrolytic caps are Sprague, maybe five or 6 pallets of them, the rest are Mallory, with a few other brands mixed in, maybe a pallet or two of 'other' brands.
I don't eBay, too many bad experiences there over the years. I got tired of selling things and getting rocks back in return for a refund.
There are clear plastic trays with Motorola transistor assortments, one p/n that comes to mind is MJ15003.
The Sprague caps are in orange and blue boxes of a one and two dozen each in case lots. To give perspective on the lot so far, I've filled two 20ft containers and still am unloading a third loaded with drawer cabinets. We also bagged and boxed hundreds of small drawer assortments from all sorts of brands. Most are component specific but many appear to be purpose driven assortments, many branded with various name brands, like Fisher, Raytheon, and RCA.
There's also boxes of RCA 2N3055 transistors, each one in an individual little box complete with screws and insulator. The Allen Bradley items are in plastic bags, in tape lots of 1000 and 10,000.
Then there's the 4x4x8" bin cabinets, about 300 cabinets of 16 drawers. Most are component specific but many cabinets are a mix of various components, each drawer filled with a particular part number. Then there are case quantities of all sorts of components I've not even begun to sort through. The parts bins and cabinets are what I intend to keep, mainly the larger steel drawer cabinets, each one being three drawers wide and 10 drawers tall, and each of those is mounted atop two stacked smaller cabinets, four drawers wide five drawers tall, with shallower drawers. Each one mounted on a roller base with 8" iron casters on a hardwood frame.
The lower bins are a mix of components and related hardware, like knobs, buttons, panel lights, LED panels, bulbs, and other various parts.
One cabinet is full of multifunction switches, of all sorts, all salvaged from apparently the same thing. They appear to be from some sort of test equipment.
If I can't find someone who has a use for them they'll likely be the first thing to get scrapped as they have no place in anything audio that I mess with myself.
There's also boxes of various variable resistors, all new, roughly 100 or so of each type. They're pretty heavy duty looking, likely a lot heavier than any audio amp or receiver would have ever used.
I have a guy who will buy the transistors and resistors and any foil or film caps, but I'm not worried about moving them yet. I simply don't want to allocate any storage space to worthless items. Things like that tend to get buried and forgotten taking up space that could be holding something of value.
There's also a full library of tech books on circuit design, component usage, and various engineering manuals. (I filled the back of one of my cube vans with just books). There's also boxes of cross reference and spec books for various components.
If just the transistors are worth what they're asking for the Chinese knockoffs on eBay, I'm likely holding a fair dollar amount of inventory here.
There's also several transistor assortments that are marked 'gold plated' with gold plated leads. Those are all from Mouser with receipts from 1976-79. Many of the Mouser receipts have the original el Cajon address only.
Look at surplussales.com of nebraska. He may be interested in making a bid.
Another surplus house that may make a blanket quote is electronicsurplus.com of NY.
MJ15003, I love them. Pre-1982? RCA homotaxial 2n3055 are highly useful for certain pre 1980 products that oscillate on later epitaxial versions. Not many people repairing amps that old.
White mallory e-caps, I hate them, my wurlitzer4500 & 4300 organs are full of used up ones. Same with orange sprague atomlytic, I found average life to be 4 years @ 2000 hours a year. Elastomer seals deteriorate on electrolytics on the shelf, used or not. Somebody that installs these in prototypes that won't see 200 hours use may not have a problem with them.
Note there is a "no returns" option for seller on e-bay.
Gold plate transistor leads were found at one point to attack the tin/lead solder and cause failures in the joints. Haven't happened yet to the GE ones I bought from electronicsurplus.
Another surplus house that may make a blanket quote is electronicsurplus.com of NY.
MJ15003, I love them. Pre-1982? RCA homotaxial 2n3055 are highly useful for certain pre 1980 products that oscillate on later epitaxial versions. Not many people repairing amps that old.
White mallory e-caps, I hate them, my wurlitzer4500 & 4300 organs are full of used up ones. Same with orange sprague atomlytic, I found average life to be 4 years @ 2000 hours a year. Elastomer seals deteriorate on electrolytics on the shelf, used or not. Somebody that installs these in prototypes that won't see 200 hours use may not have a problem with them.
Note there is a "no returns" option for seller on e-bay.
Gold plate transistor leads were found at one point to attack the tin/lead solder and cause failures in the joints. Haven't happened yet to the GE ones I bought from electronicsurplus.
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Not in PA, in NJ right now. The majority of the clean out was from a location in central PA, combined with a storage building in basement of a warehouse in Phila.
I have a guy who is interested in buying any new old stock parts I don't intend to keep but I would entertain other offers as well. I have another guy who buys all and anything tube related.
Most of the amps I deal with and own are pre-1980, so many of the transistors here may be of use.
I've never dealt with the Mallory white or Sprague orange e-caps before but I've seen the Sprague orange caps used on various older amps and receivers here and there, mostly in the power supply area. I don't think they're suitable for any sound path use.
You can check off No Returns on eBay but all a buyer needs to do is say "Item not as described" and eBay triggers a return and/or refund. If you refuse the return, they refund the buyer anyway and debit your account. Worse yet is when a buyer pulls that and returns a box of rocks and all eBay sees is that it was delivered back to you so they refund the buyer in full.
I thought that the gold plating issues were only with cheap Chinese components with low quality plating or low grade gold with no nickle barrier layer?
I believe it was in 1974 that the electrolytic capacitors stopped using pcbs, so after that should be ok for the regular dump. Before that, and they would need to be verified to be non pcb.
Interesting find/opportunity by the way...
Interesting find/opportunity by the way...
You usually have at least 50 % chance that an electrolytic cap from the 1950's is fine after reforming and at most 50 % chance that it is dried out and has no capacitance left. Yours are newer than that, so the odds should be better. You can be 100 % sure that it needs reforming.
What you describe sounds like a dream for anyone who is into restoring antique electronics! Antique radio clubs probably know people who are interested. Antique Radios Radio Clubs
What you describe sounds like a dream for anyone who is into restoring antique electronics! Antique radio clubs probably know people who are interested. Antique Radios Radio Clubs
The local trash pickup here won't take any electronics or electronics parts, not even just a plastic case from one.
What will a 'bad' e-cap look like?
The few I picked up and tested all show pass on the one tester. Most test a bit higher or a bit lower than their rating. (New caps I just ordered do the same thing).
What will a 'bad' e-cap look like?
The few I picked up and tested all show pass on the one tester. Most test a bit higher or a bit lower than their rating. (New caps I just ordered do the same thing).
NOS electrolytic caps, except the mythical epoxy sealed ones, have the "six weeks" phenomenon. They work great for about 6 weeks until the last of the water evaporates out through the cracked rubber seals. Not all, sometimes the buyer is lucky. But organforum.com had countless threads where a buyer bought a bargain organ at the charity resale shop or a garage sale and it worked great for about six weeks. The water doesn't evaporate until the heat of operation gives it some energy.
Oxygen attacks rubber, operating or sitting on the shelf. Not even Pebble Beach Concours allows 40 year old tires on their entries. You can't measure the quality of the rubber unless you heat the cap a bit for 6 or 8 weeks then test the ESR.
Besides green CDE's which were epoxy sealed in fender guitar amps, Hammond organ tone cabinets (power amps) of the 40's had a 4 uf electrolytic cap sealed in a sardine can. The metal crimp seal is effective, those caps last forever. Dropped as a cost saving move at the end for the forties.
Oxygen attacks rubber, operating or sitting on the shelf. Not even Pebble Beach Concours allows 40 year old tires on their entries. You can't measure the quality of the rubber unless you heat the cap a bit for 6 or 8 weeks then test the ESR.
Besides green CDE's which were epoxy sealed in fender guitar amps, Hammond organ tone cabinets (power amps) of the 40's had a 4 uf electrolytic cap sealed in a sardine can. The metal crimp seal is effective, those caps last forever. Dropped as a cost saving move at the end for the forties.
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I don't doubt the caps are mostly scrap, and they're a minor part of this lot.
The carbon comp resistors are what I'm digging through now, most are stored in bins, some still in original bags, others in boxes. Some are in AB marked bags, others are marked Corning, and many are loose in drawers. So far I've pulled out about 50 lbs or so of them.
I'm pulling small samples here and there to test, what I find is that the larger 1 & 2w carbon comps are reading dead on, while the smaller 1/4w resistors are showing to be about 50% okay. Those that are reading dead on are mostly the larger value 1/4w resistors, while the lower values are a bit high.
Its the 1/8w carbon comps that are way high, almost evenly across the whole assortment. Most all of them read a third of their marked rating on the high side.
(100Ω will be 150Ω, 20Ω with be 60Ω and so on). It sort of shocked me how consistent the rise in value was in that one assortment of 1/8w resistors, so much so it made me double check the color codes several times making sure I wasn't reading them wrong or something.
The vast majority of the resistors though are newer, most from the later 70's and up I suppose. There's four huge all value, all wattage assortments in larger cabinets in quantities of 5,000 of each value or more that are all dog bone style modern resistors. Nearly all of them read a bit low for their marked rating, nearly all of them are in Mouser packages.
I found invoices for massive purchases from Mouser, South West Electronics, United, and several others. The dates on the sheets range from 1967 to 1998.
There's also a huge assortment of burgundy colored epoxy dipped 'mica type' capacitors from Sprague, it encompasses nearly every value in the catalogue, most in gallon sized bags, others loose in parts drawers in the cabinets. I've only started to go through those.
One huge plastic pallet was the biggest surprise so far, it was full of old receivers, shortwave radios, Heathkit projects, and a few unknown, uncompleted projects.
The receivers are JVC, Fisher, and Girard, shortwave radios are Sony, GE, Panasonic, and Sanyo. All of the SW radios are big portables.
There was also one Fisher 400T set up with a pair of Fisher speakers in the work area. it was covered in dust and sitting 12ft high atop a parts cabinet with nothing but two Altec 886 speakers and a home made antenna run over to an upper window. I've not done anything with any of the radios, but the 400t is full of white mallory caps and has had nearly all its power supply resistors replaced at some point by clipping and surface soldering them in place to the old leads.
They did think enough of the thing to keep it covered with a cardboard box nailed to a long stick. It took us a while to figure out why there was a long broom stick hanging from the one cabinet off to one side with a strange homemade clip keeping it there. Until I found a library ladder to investigate, I had no idea there was a receiver or speakers up there. The speakers work, I did hook them up to a small receiver here just to see what they sounded like. The rubber surrounds still look like new.
A lot of this stuff I'm seeing for the first time since the crew that was helping packed a good bit of it, and many of the cabinets were moved fully loaded just wrapped in shipping wrap to expedite the whole clean out.
As to the in spec carbon comp resistors, what are they worth? In say a 20-30lb assortment, (we did keep them sorted in individual bags as they were removed from the cabinets, with some more still to be bagged).
The cabinets are staying and I have no use for carbon comp resistors, and likely won't keep all the newer resistors either. Its far more than a lifetime supply for me, as if I didn't already have that.
Do transistors fail with age? The oldest are older RCA's and the newest being massive assortment kits in 50,000 quantity from Mouser and a few other suppliers. Those that are imported are marked Hong Kong, the majority are US made.
Then there's four huge cabinets full of op-amps and various IC chips, voltage regulators, diodes, bridge rectifiers, etc. There's likely more transistors here than anything else, the majority of them just take up less space or are in un-opened boxes.
Another question: In more modern resistors, does the base color indicate anything?
I've seeing assorments in beige, brown, light blue, and gray. Most gray resistors are huge 2w or maybe larger. There's also an assortment of dark green wire wound resistors some marked Mallory some are marked "Made in England".
Plus an 'assortment' of gold colored aluminum cases wire wound resistors in about 20 or so different values in boxes of 120. Those are marked Vishay, and most are 25w or higher, some up to 250w.
The carbon comp resistors are what I'm digging through now, most are stored in bins, some still in original bags, others in boxes. Some are in AB marked bags, others are marked Corning, and many are loose in drawers. So far I've pulled out about 50 lbs or so of them.
I'm pulling small samples here and there to test, what I find is that the larger 1 & 2w carbon comps are reading dead on, while the smaller 1/4w resistors are showing to be about 50% okay. Those that are reading dead on are mostly the larger value 1/4w resistors, while the lower values are a bit high.
Its the 1/8w carbon comps that are way high, almost evenly across the whole assortment. Most all of them read a third of their marked rating on the high side.
(100Ω will be 150Ω, 20Ω with be 60Ω and so on). It sort of shocked me how consistent the rise in value was in that one assortment of 1/8w resistors, so much so it made me double check the color codes several times making sure I wasn't reading them wrong or something.
The vast majority of the resistors though are newer, most from the later 70's and up I suppose. There's four huge all value, all wattage assortments in larger cabinets in quantities of 5,000 of each value or more that are all dog bone style modern resistors. Nearly all of them read a bit low for their marked rating, nearly all of them are in Mouser packages.
I found invoices for massive purchases from Mouser, South West Electronics, United, and several others. The dates on the sheets range from 1967 to 1998.
There's also a huge assortment of burgundy colored epoxy dipped 'mica type' capacitors from Sprague, it encompasses nearly every value in the catalogue, most in gallon sized bags, others loose in parts drawers in the cabinets. I've only started to go through those.
One huge plastic pallet was the biggest surprise so far, it was full of old receivers, shortwave radios, Heathkit projects, and a few unknown, uncompleted projects.
The receivers are JVC, Fisher, and Girard, shortwave radios are Sony, GE, Panasonic, and Sanyo. All of the SW radios are big portables.
There was also one Fisher 400T set up with a pair of Fisher speakers in the work area. it was covered in dust and sitting 12ft high atop a parts cabinet with nothing but two Altec 886 speakers and a home made antenna run over to an upper window. I've not done anything with any of the radios, but the 400t is full of white mallory caps and has had nearly all its power supply resistors replaced at some point by clipping and surface soldering them in place to the old leads.
They did think enough of the thing to keep it covered with a cardboard box nailed to a long stick. It took us a while to figure out why there was a long broom stick hanging from the one cabinet off to one side with a strange homemade clip keeping it there. Until I found a library ladder to investigate, I had no idea there was a receiver or speakers up there. The speakers work, I did hook them up to a small receiver here just to see what they sounded like. The rubber surrounds still look like new.
A lot of this stuff I'm seeing for the first time since the crew that was helping packed a good bit of it, and many of the cabinets were moved fully loaded just wrapped in shipping wrap to expedite the whole clean out.
As to the in spec carbon comp resistors, what are they worth? In say a 20-30lb assortment, (we did keep them sorted in individual bags as they were removed from the cabinets, with some more still to be bagged).
The cabinets are staying and I have no use for carbon comp resistors, and likely won't keep all the newer resistors either. Its far more than a lifetime supply for me, as if I didn't already have that.
Do transistors fail with age? The oldest are older RCA's and the newest being massive assortment kits in 50,000 quantity from Mouser and a few other suppliers. Those that are imported are marked Hong Kong, the majority are US made.
Then there's four huge cabinets full of op-amps and various IC chips, voltage regulators, diodes, bridge rectifiers, etc. There's likely more transistors here than anything else, the majority of them just take up less space or are in un-opened boxes.
Another question: In more modern resistors, does the base color indicate anything?
I've seeing assorments in beige, brown, light blue, and gray. Most gray resistors are huge 2w or maybe larger. There's also an assortment of dark green wire wound resistors some marked Mallory some are marked "Made in England".
Plus an 'assortment' of gold colored aluminum cases wire wound resistors in about 20 or so different values in boxes of 120. Those are marked Vishay, and most are 25w or higher, some up to 250w.
In general with 1/4W and 1/8W resistors, brown or tan tend to be carbon film, and blue or grey tend to be metal film
I think the tan one's here are all metal film, they look just like a few packs I bought from Mouser myself a few months ago. Sort of a dark beige color shaped like a dog bone.
The gray one's are the same as a few rolls that I also found that are marked metal film. In the older carbon comps I have three shades of brown, some red, some burgundy, and some almost black. There's a few others in white that I'm not sure about but they test dead on their rating.
The more I dig through this stuff, the more I find that I've not seen before and the less I can figure what they were doing with it all.
My first impression was they were building power supplies and switching gear, then I find a good bit of audio related components, including a box of amp boards and non-polar caps, and now I came across a whole cabinet full of inductor coils and several sheets on building DA converters, preamps, and audio amps.
A lot of the stuff is laden with small notes and diagrams, many of which I have no clue what they were for.
The gray one's are the same as a few rolls that I also found that are marked metal film. In the older carbon comps I have three shades of brown, some red, some burgundy, and some almost black. There's a few others in white that I'm not sure about but they test dead on their rating.
The more I dig through this stuff, the more I find that I've not seen before and the less I can figure what they were doing with it all.
My first impression was they were building power supplies and switching gear, then I find a good bit of audio related components, including a box of amp boards and non-polar caps, and now I came across a whole cabinet full of inductor coils and several sheets on building DA converters, preamps, and audio amps.
A lot of the stuff is laden with small notes and diagrams, many of which I have no clue what they were for.