Hello DIY audio,
Ok - i got this FRD and played around with it at home in some dummy/mock cabinets:
One thing that stuck out for me, was that this driver was easy to 'choke', with to much dampening - it hated dampening within the cabinet.
Visaton : SL 87 ND - 8 Ohm
RDC: 7.5 Ohm
Qm: 2.38
Qe: 0.91
Qt: 0.66
fs: 138 Hz
VAS: 1.24 l
mms: 2.1 g
cms: 0.63
rms: 0.77 kg/s
SL 87 ND - 8 Ohm | Visaton
aside from that it sounded good within my small listening room, i then contacted visaton and they recommended a 5L sealed cabinet, i could go bigger though - which suited my interest as i had an 8L cabinet that needed filling.
I built the cabinets and used no stuffing what so ever, but maybe i tested my luck and used a thin wool/felt lining glued within the interior walls of the cabinet.
I also made the Cab. walls and baffle of the cabinet extra thick. (1 inch)
Being a loudspeaker noobie, i thought some overkill wont do harm??
Well it did haha, so the drivers sound terrible within these cabinets - they sound muffled and acoustically dead. there is no sound below 500hz atleast...
So my pride is damaged - can i salvage this project from crash and burn??
UPDATE -
Got some Extra drivers on order to try: Dont hesitate to recommend something it might 'whet' my appetite for another build 🙂
Mark Audio Pluvia 7 - Chrome
Pluvia 7 Chrome
Speaker Specifications
Nominal Size (mm) 70
Nominal Impedance (Ohms) 8
Power Rating (W) 22
Sensitivity 1W/1M (dB) 85.84
Resonant Frequency (Hz) 67.86
Qts 0.538
Qms 2.391
Qes 0.695
Vas (Litres) 5.543
Re (Ohms) 7.2
Xmax (mm) 4
Freq Response Min (hz) 70
Freq Response Max (hz) 25000
Mark Audio Pluvia 7 - Chrome
Brand: Mark Audio
Product Code: Pluvia 7 Chrome
Visaton Speakers in Kraut Jars on Vimeo
Ok - i got this FRD and played around with it at home in some dummy/mock cabinets:
One thing that stuck out for me, was that this driver was easy to 'choke', with to much dampening - it hated dampening within the cabinet.
Visaton : SL 87 ND - 8 Ohm
RDC: 7.5 Ohm
Qm: 2.38
Qe: 0.91
Qt: 0.66
fs: 138 Hz
VAS: 1.24 l
mms: 2.1 g
cms: 0.63
rms: 0.77 kg/s
SL 87 ND - 8 Ohm | Visaton
aside from that it sounded good within my small listening room, i then contacted visaton and they recommended a 5L sealed cabinet, i could go bigger though - which suited my interest as i had an 8L cabinet that needed filling.
I built the cabinets and used no stuffing what so ever, but maybe i tested my luck and used a thin wool/felt lining glued within the interior walls of the cabinet.
I also made the Cab. walls and baffle of the cabinet extra thick. (1 inch)
Being a loudspeaker noobie, i thought some overkill wont do harm??
Well it did haha, so the drivers sound terrible within these cabinets - they sound muffled and acoustically dead. there is no sound below 500hz atleast...
So my pride is damaged - can i salvage this project from crash and burn??
- Recut the baffle for a bigger stronger driver (4 inch)? (recommend a driver!!)
maybe the TS parameters have to be allowable for an over engineered 8l cabinet??
- Experiment with porting? (cut a modest 1 inch hole in the baffle and with cardboard tubes, tune it by ear?) It will make it bass reflex, but the porting may allow it to breath??
- Any other advise or ideas? I dont mind experimenting 😀
UPDATE -
Got some Extra drivers on order to try: Dont hesitate to recommend something it might 'whet' my appetite for another build 🙂
Mark Audio Pluvia 7 - Chrome
Pluvia 7 Chrome
Speaker Specifications
Nominal Size (mm) 70
Nominal Impedance (Ohms) 8
Power Rating (W) 22
Sensitivity 1W/1M (dB) 85.84
Resonant Frequency (Hz) 67.86
Qts 0.538
Qms 2.391
Qes 0.695
Vas (Litres) 5.543
Re (Ohms) 7.2
Xmax (mm) 4
Freq Response Min (hz) 70
Freq Response Max (hz) 25000
Mark Audio Pluvia 7 - Chrome
Brand: Mark Audio
Product Code: Pluvia 7 Chrome
Visaton Speakers in Kraut Jars on Vimeo
Attachments
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I didn't try to simulate this driver in an 8L enclosure, but just looking at the graph included on the specs page, it has a rising FR of pretty much 10dBs, so of course you don't hear any bass because the highs are too prominent.
Add a BSC filter to bring it down. 1mH with probably at least a 10 Ohms resistor.
Use an app like WinISD to simulate enclosure response for the bass.
Finally, being a 3" driver, with a Fs of 138Hz, it will never give you any meat in the bass area, so keep expectations low and add a small sub if you want to get more bass.
Add a BSC filter to bring it down. 1mH with probably at least a 10 Ohms resistor.
Use an app like WinISD to simulate enclosure response for the bass.
Finally, being a 3" driver, with a Fs of 138Hz, it will never give you any meat in the bass area, so keep expectations low and add a small sub if you want to get more bass.
Hi, nice driver.
It's very critical of the alignment to work. His brother (87FE) is keen of a 4.5/5L - 90Hz. Needs to be seen with your driver. BoxSim software might also help here.
It's very critical of the alignment to work. His brother (87FE) is keen of a 4.5/5L - 90Hz. Needs to be seen with your driver. BoxSim software might also help here.
Ok so i get the feeling i was over enthusiastic - making a bigger box...
I found an old thread where the box simulation was done, and with bass reflex/ported
again the results say 5L box
"I calculated with WinISD and looks to me that a bass reflex is the way to go (or passive radiator). For each driver you would need a box of 5 liters tuned to around 85hz. That can be done with a 5cm diameter tube which is 10cm long."
Urgghhh.... this cabinet is almost twice the size of this 🙁
Noobie Build Bluetooth Speaker. - Visaton Waterproof Driver
I found an old thread where the box simulation was done, and with bass reflex/ported
again the results say 5L box
"I calculated with WinISD and looks to me that a bass reflex is the way to go (or passive radiator). For each driver you would need a box of 5 liters tuned to around 85hz. That can be done with a 5cm diameter tube which is 10cm long."
Urgghhh.... this cabinet is almost twice the size of this 🙁
Noobie Build Bluetooth Speaker. - Visaton Waterproof Driver
Attachments
Last edited:
So perhaps you could block out a 3L section of the 8L cabinet to make it 5? You could do it with a single panel glued in place - fill the 3L space with sand or cement?
Or you could get 3L worth of wood pieces - glue them to the interior cabinet walls - this would further stiffen your already 1" thick panels. Or create one of those swiss cheese matrix of internal bracing that happens to add up to 3L of volume...
Maybe your 8L cabs arent done yet!
Or you could get 3L worth of wood pieces - glue them to the interior cabinet walls - this would further stiffen your already 1" thick panels. Or create one of those swiss cheese matrix of internal bracing that happens to add up to 3L of volume...
Maybe your 8L cabs arent done yet!
Also alignments are critical. Try for the fun of it OB with some foam for acoustic treatment.
In case of the BR enclosures:
VISATON SL 87 ND, VB = 3.7 L, FB = 97.0 Hz
anything like ~4 Liters and 95/97Hz. Port dimensions, if needed, give me the internal diameter of the port (and VB) you going to use I then calculate the lenght for you.
In case of the BR enclosures:
VISATON SL 87 ND, VB = 3.7 L, FB = 97.0 Hz
anything like ~4 Liters and 95/97Hz. Port dimensions, if needed, give me the internal diameter of the port (and VB) you going to use I then calculate the lenght for you.
Attachments
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Just a quick FWIW that a 1" thick panel should have a lot of material removed around the back of the driver to allow it to "breathe" properly, or you're going to have weird loading and a lot of early reflections.
Chris
Chris
Ugh i bit the bullet - going to try these drivers
Mark Audio Pluvia 7 - Chrome
Pluvia 7 Chrome
Speaker Specifications
Brand: Mark Audio
Product Code: Pluvia 7 Chrome
Pluvia 7 Chrome
Mark Audio Pluvia 7 - Chrome
Pluvia 7 Chrome
Speaker Specifications
- Nominal Size (mm) 70
- Nominal Impedance (Ohms) 8
- Power Rating (W) 22
- Sensitivity 1W/1M (dB) 85.84
- Resonant Frequency (Hz) 67.86
- Qts 0.538
- Qms 2.391
- Qes 0.695
- Vas (Litres) 5.543
- Re (Ohms) 7.2
- Xmax (mm) 4
- Freq Response Min (hz) 70
- Freq Response Max (hz) 25000
Brand: Mark Audio
Product Code: Pluvia 7 Chrome
Pluvia 7 Chrome
Attachments
I suggest TangBand 1320, imho better than Mark Audio.
TB SPEAKERS W4-1320SIF (Full-range 4", 8 Ohm, 50 Wmax)
TB SPEAKERS W4-1320SIF (Full-range 4", 8 Ohm, 50 Wmax)
Hope fully you did as Chris suggested, that is to remove a bevel from the backside of the driver hole for it to breathe. Very important.
Yes - The holesaw to cut the hole, then some massaging with the file to remove and round off the back surface - A router would be nice for this though ... ehhh
Yes i will look into this - Stockists are hard to find for that brand here in AUS
Ebay maybe.. thanks for the recommend!
If you don’t start modelling these drivers in your box you will never really understand what is going on.
There are so many more ways of screwing this up than getting lucky that it isn’t funny. The chance of stumbling on an optimal result being close to zero.
Why are you resisting modelling the performance and thus understanding why you got what you did?
There are so many more ways of screwing this up than getting lucky that it isn’t funny. The chance of stumbling on an optimal result being close to zero.
Why are you resisting modelling the performance and thus understanding why you got what you did?
I kinda wish i knew how to do that stuff, and/or im just not very good with numbers.....
I remember doing the Cert.2 in electronics at Tafe and just passing Heh
It sounds foolish, me messing around with drivers etc...
But.....It makes no sense to me, sometimes i mount a driver in an esky (icebox) or in a large cookie jar, a glass fish bowl a plastic PVC tube and it sounds great - better then a wooden cabinet,
It makes me think there is more to the picture than just technical analysis??
with that said i do envy people with the time/knowledge to understand T/s Parameters intuitively though...
I try not to test peoples patience on this forum with that said, some of the work people do in audio i cant even comprehend the level
I remember doing the Cert.2 in electronics at Tafe and just passing Heh
It sounds foolish, me messing around with drivers etc...
But.....It makes no sense to me, sometimes i mount a driver in an esky (icebox) or in a large cookie jar, a glass fish bowl a plastic PVC tube and it sounds great - better then a wooden cabinet,
It makes me think there is more to the picture than just technical analysis??
with that said i do envy people with the time/knowledge to understand T/s Parameters intuitively though...
I try not to test peoples patience on this forum with that said, some of the work people do in audio i cant even comprehend the level
I had fun with this, but you get what im talking about - The round bulb Saurkraaut jar worked so well, (4L Jar) it makes no sense to me....
There was also a 2l plastic hexagon canister - it worked but was hit and miss for some styles of music
i added just small thin felt to the inside but it did dampen to much, even the slightest amount was effecting the sound charachter
Visaton - German speaker mounted in sauerkraut jars
I will try to figure out Video Hosting/ drop box, i took some videos with iPad
There was also a 2l plastic hexagon canister - it worked but was hit and miss for some styles of music
i added just small thin felt to the inside but it did dampen to much, even the slightest amount was effecting the sound charachter
Visaton - German speaker mounted in sauerkraut jars
I will try to figure out Video Hosting/ drop box, i took some videos with iPad
Attachments
Ok Video Hosting worked out - and a link to the song itself if anyone wants to try?
Music in video: Quantum - SNY - YouTube
Music in video: Quantum - SNY - YouTube
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Visaton Speakers in Kraut Jars on Vimeo
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.