I refer to post 131. Re my audax project: Awell respected diy hifi dealer in France proposed me a 2way Audax HM210Z0 coupled with Vifa XT25BG60 crossed at 2200Khz in a folded horn using the attached xover ( keeping the components values secret) .
Also in a 1996 french magazine Le Hautparleur proposed then a kit Audax HM210Z0 + Vifa HT270 (now Peerless D27TG-35-06) with the woofer hooked 1st order with 0.68mH inductor and tweeter using 3rd order. What do you think about the tweeters matching and which one is better for this project and if the 2200kHz crossing ok?
Here is the xover schematics for the first project.
Also in a 1996 french magazine Le Hautparleur proposed then a kit Audax HM210Z0 + Vifa HT270 (now Peerless D27TG-35-06) with the woofer hooked 1st order with 0.68mH inductor and tweeter using 3rd order. What do you think about the tweeters matching and which one is better for this project and if the 2200kHz crossing ok?
Here is the xover schematics for the first project.
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Some off-topic posts have been moved here - Playing with the DXT in a design that looks like the current setup I already have with a Seas Excel magnum. The Excel cost 5 times the price of the DXT...... not 5 times better for sure... actually close call really. The difficulty is more along the lines of equalizing the drivers, so that I dont fool myself with simple FR-differences.
Maybe the DXT is a little more focused, meaning that the stereoperspective is a little more precise and voices in movies come directly from the screen and almost not from the speakers, cause the off-axis is smoother.... but small changes really
Maybe the DXT is a little more focused, meaning that the stereoperspective is a little more precise and voices in movies come directly from the screen and almost not from the speakers, cause the off-axis is smoother.... but small changes really
Playing with the DXT in a design that looks like the current setup I already have with a Seas Excel magnum. The Excel cost 5 times the price of the DXT...... not 5 times better for sure... actually close call really. The difficulty is more along the lines of equalizing the drivers, so that I dont fool myself with simple FR-differences.
Maybe the DXT is a little more focused, meaning that the stereoperspective is a little more precise and voices in movies come directly from the screen and almost not from the speakers, cause the off-axis is smoother.... but small changes really
The DXT gets great reviews every place I look. What happens in the top octave though? If it is the model I'm thinking of; the top octave rolls off really early so I could never consider that for myself. I need all the output I can get in the top octave; starting as low as 8 KHz. +10 dB more output at 10 to 15 KHz for me is required compared to below 5 KHz but I AM in my mid 60's after all...ha ha ha...My Dad couldn't hear above 5 KHz at my age so I consider myself lucky really. Anything above 15 KHz for me I might as well have in ear plugs; 20 dB "boost" at 20 KHz doesn't even register for my ears anymore sadly...
@oldpkrguy
When I measure it - I get exactly the what the data shows. A raise around 2500hz at 10dB. So to make it linear I need to lower everything between 1200hz and 12700hz - and the peak at 27Khz for good measure - no pun intended
After this - it works great. One could argue that you loose a bit of sensitivity to gain the better off-axis response - but I have a fully active system and rarely play THAT loud
Will do some extra measurements to confirm that I can get that smooth off-axis response with my choise of midrange...
When I measure it - I get exactly the what the data shows. A raise around 2500hz at 10dB. So to make it linear I need to lower everything between 1200hz and 12700hz - and the peak at 27Khz for good measure - no pun intended
After this - it works great. One could argue that you loose a bit of sensitivity to gain the better off-axis response - but I have a fully active system and rarely play THAT loud
Will do some extra measurements to confirm that I can get that smooth off-axis response with my choise of midrange...
@oldpkrguy
When I measure it - I get exactly the what the data shows. A raise around 2500hz at 10dB. So to make it linear I need to lower everything between 1200hz and 12700hz - and the peak at 27Khz for good measure - no pun intended
After this - it works great. One could argue that you loose a bit of sensitivity to gain the better off-axis response - but I have a fully active system and rarely play THAT loud
Will do some extra measurements to confirm that I can get that smooth off-axis response with my choise of midrange...
Are you doing this all passive? ie a wide notch or other RLC "magic" compensation circuit to achieve flat response or do you have an active way to EQ? I REALLY want to try this DXT for someone else; not for me though; I have my Fostex T90A just the way I like it. Many people argue against super tweeters but I can tell a significant improvement even when I am listening from another room. It helps that it is now on it's own separate amplifier. My current system is all passive (not counting sub woofer) BUT; I have individual amplifiers for each driver and that makes a HUGE difference because you can tweak the gains until the tonal balance between all drivers is "perfectly balanced"
I just got the REW software and am learning to use it. I have a separate mic with interface and so I am still very low on the learning curve. What type of measurement system do you use??? I'm looking for measuring tips, short cuts, etc.; especially with REW. I am tempted to pay for a better measurement system software suite, etc. but many people say the REW is all most of us will ever need!??
Thanks!
I actually use a complete groundsound system. It is build with measuring, analyzing and filter control software. That way it intergrates with the DSP and gives me full control of all 8 amplifiers and each driver.
This system works flawlessly without any passive components.
The DXT is best in a narrow baffle and with a small midrange, in both my opinion and many others.
I have used both Holm acoustics and REW. REW is maybe the best and gives better control -IMO. as a microphone I use a calibrated one:
Cross·Spectrum - Calibrated Dayton Audio EMM-6 Microphones for Sale
It might not be needed, but I sleep better at night
Then I use a Roland Quad Capture soundcard, cause the Groundsound software needs a loop-back and a pro soundcard to work it's best.
But - with many years of trial and error - I feel that many microphones measure pretty well. I just want to be sure - that's why I go a little further.
OK, thanks! Good to know for sure. I didn't know what you meant when you said "active". I have the same Dayton EMM-6 and am trying to learn to use it with REW. My interface is by M Audio, model "AIR" 192/4. It has phantom power, low noise pre-amps, dual channel in and out and, of course, USB interface. Someone else on here suggested I should get a 2 channel unit so I could do loopbacks because that was the most accurate way of doing measurements. Having separate amplifiers for each driver makes a huge difference for me anyway even if all of my X/O's above the subs are passive.
Do you have any experience or knowledge of the M Audio? It seems to be very popular because most suppliers have trouble keeping them in stock. It is mostly meant for musicians to do home recording with but it is 24 bit and 192 KHz with low noise pre-amps and on sale it is only $109 US so it seemed to me to be all I would need.
Thanks again!
Do you have any experience or knowledge of the M Audio? It seems to be very popular because most suppliers have trouble keeping them in stock. It is mostly meant for musicians to do home recording with but it is 24 bit and 192 KHz with low noise pre-amps and on sale it is only $109 US so it seemed to me to be all I would need.
Thanks again!
The M-audio brand is fine, but I bought the Roland cause it had the specific specs that I needed at that time, to record with full duplex at minimum 96Khz, so that I could get a clean response up to 30Khz to also be able to measure the breakup on tweeters.
For measuring - please read this one - for starters:
Loudspeaker measurements
Yes - active is awesome
The M-audio brand is fine, but I bought the Roland cause it had the specific specs that I needed at that time, to record with full duplex at minimum 96Khz, so that I could get a clean response up to 30Khz to also be able to measure the breakup on tweeters.
For measuring - please read this one - for starters:
Loudspeaker measurements
Yes - active is awesome
I am aware of these techniques; I was heavily involved with acoustics as relating to underwater transducers with the Navy. Same concepts, same formulas, different medium. We did accurate measurements and calibrations on "transmitters" and "receivers" both. There are a very few deep, freshwater lakes that have facilities for just this purpose. You still need fast sweeps, gating, chirps, etc. to avoid or subtract out reflections, etc. The surface is a boundary; sound in the water goes to the surface and bounces back just like a mirror. There is even a phenomenon named "Lloyd's Mirror"; it applies to acoustics, light waves, etc. Wavelengths in general.
I will eventually get into the more elaborate measurements; right now; I still haven't gotten the basics down; still very early and on the steep part of the learning curve!
Cheers!
Awesome
I myself have worked with many different technologies and mechanics too - which indeed helps, when trying to understand new theories and principles.Physco acoustics are a bit of a different animal, since it includes our brain and experience. So we tend to mix many things up. I for one is sitting now and trying to find out if this one Seas tweeter, is better than the other.... and maybe it just takes time
And your welcome. I'm happy that any of my thought or experience can be of some use
As a former musician; I trust my "trained ears"; I used to have measuring equipment but that was literally decades ago. Now; I need to learn the new equipment. My biggest critique method involves playing my most familiar recordings over and over while making subtle or minute changes; one at a time to say X/O components, room placement, driver orientation relative to the others, etc. Physco Acoustics is an odd duck so to speak. Difficult to describe sometimes what the ears and brain interpret vs what a microphone measurement is trying to tell us.
What are some of your personal criteria to determine if you "like" the sound of one driver vs another? I use the female singing voice as a prime test subject. Piano is another favorite choice. Finally, the violin. Getting the upper notes plus overtones plus harmonics of a violin just right is really one of the hardest things for me. I know once I get the female voice and piano "dialed in"; I'm really close to an optimum balance between all drivers; fullrange with EQ, 2-way, 3-way, or my latest, "3 1/2 way with sub..." That's why I now have an amplifier for every driver; more fine control. I spend days just making minute changes to X/O components going for "perfection"...crazy hobby for sure!
What are some of your personal criteria to determine if you "like" the sound of one driver vs another? I use the female singing voice as a prime test subject. Piano is another favorite choice. Finally, the violin. Getting the upper notes plus overtones plus harmonics of a violin just right is really one of the hardest things for me. I know once I get the female voice and piano "dialed in"; I'm really close to an optimum balance between all drivers; fullrange with EQ, 2-way, 3-way, or my latest, "3 1/2 way with sub..." That's why I now have an amplifier for every driver; more fine control. I spend days just making minute changes to X/O components going for "perfection"...crazy hobby for sure!
i found this note from Olive and Toole as a good rule of thumb:
It is exactly what I experience when I EQ my speakers and make filters - that even small changes can make all of the difference - whether you like a speaker or not - both cheap and expensive. The Seas DXT is cheap, well build and seems to do the job. I believe that Grimm Audio has made a BE-version of this tweeter. But maybe BE is mostly a hype and not something we really need to worry about, to optain good sound. Cause you might be able to measure it - but not everything we measure is super important for good percieved sound - IMO.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It is exactly what I experience when I EQ my speakers and make filters - that even small changes can make all of the difference - whether you like a speaker or not - both cheap and expensive. The Seas DXT is cheap, well build and seems to do the job. I believe that Grimm Audio has made a BE-version of this tweeter. But maybe BE is mostly a hype and not something we really need to worry about, to optain good sound. Cause you might be able to measure it - but not everything we measure is super important for good percieved sound - IMO.
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I'm only interested in the OP questions. I suggested something, but since I don't have direct experience with all the drivers around, I have interest in hearing opinions. But I don't want to unsubscribe only because a lot of people here suggest something non interesting (higher, something very higher than 40$ tweeters, or clearly not suitable for the OP needs). And not considering all the posts without any connections whatsoever with the thread core.
Even if I'm not a moderator, I suggest a reading of the forum rules, someone here clearly doesn't know them. See the note 1 of the rules about thread jacking and off-topic posts:
Ralf
Even if I'm not a moderator, I suggest a reading of the forum rules, someone here clearly doesn't know them. See the note 1 of the rules about thread jacking and off-topic posts:
And I really find annoying the practice to quote all the post before (also a rule, even if it not a hard one).
Ralf
Oops... I use a different currency and thought the DXT was a cheap tweeter... 70 not 50$ - my bad - sorry about that - and if the thread got a bit of track.
I thought I was at least a bit relevant with the measurement and filter technique, cause this is very important, to judge whether a tweeter is good for a given purpose or not - no matter the price.
I thought I was at least a bit relevant with the measurement and filter technique, cause this is very important, to judge whether a tweeter is good for a given purpose or not - no matter the price.
i found this note from Olive and Toole as a good rule of thumb:
It is exactly what I experience when I EQ my speakers and make filters - that even small changes can make all of the difference - whether you like a speaker or not - both cheap and expensive. The Seas DXT is cheap, well build and seems to do the job. I believe that Grimm Audio has made a BE-version of this tweeter. But maybe BE is mostly a hype and not something we really need to worry about, to optain good sound. Cause you might be able to measure it - but not everything we measure is super important for good percieved sound - IMO.
Hi,
The first when seen on a driver is the one having the best impulse response if it was measured after
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OK, let's return to the ORIGINAL reason for all of "this" thread. What is budget??? A $20 US tweeter that does a decent job certainly meets the criteria of inexpensive. But; if you can spend 2 or 3 times that and get 5 to 10 times better performance and quality and reliability; these should certainly be considered as still "budget" because the performance cost cost ratio certainly warrants a serious look and consideration. Even a $100 US tweeter can be considered a bargain if the reviews; tests and evaluations all confirm it can easily compare with a tweeter in the + $300 US range. If the ultimate goal is absolute minimum money spent; maybe you are really NOT that interested in good performance and reliability long term. How many $20 tweeters are available that can possibly sound or perform reliably and long term anywhere as near as a $40 or $50 tweeter; very, very few...
