Some of us here I’m sure have lost their ability to hear the extended frequency range that is possible with today’s drivers. So that begs the question.
How much extension on the both the low end and high end do we really need as we get older?
Mine is very limited to a range of about 60 Hz to 6,000 Hz. So is it worth really worrying about a speaker that goes from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, when I’ll never hear anything above 6,000 Hz even if it’s in the source and carried all the way through the rest of the system.
And if that’s true, then why even worry about a multi-way when a full range driver will cover most of the range I can hear.
I tried to do a search to see if this has been discussed much before, but it didn't get me anywhere.
Anyone else thought about this? Would like to hear your comments.
How much extension on the both the low end and high end do we really need as we get older?
Mine is very limited to a range of about 60 Hz to 6,000 Hz. So is it worth really worrying about a speaker that goes from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, when I’ll never hear anything above 6,000 Hz even if it’s in the source and carried all the way through the rest of the system.
And if that’s true, then why even worry about a multi-way when a full range driver will cover most of the range I can hear.
I tried to do a search to see if this has been discussed much before, but it didn't get me anywhere.
Anyone else thought about this? Would like to hear your comments.
Having older ears myself with severe tinnitus is one ear, caused by a JBL compression driver, I still like t feel the bass.
I have tailored hearing aids for the affected ear but find it only makes the whistle more aggressive as the day progresses.
It amuses me to read specifications on amplifiers; 2 - 50kHZ +-1dB.
Useful frequency range is up to 18kHZ for even the youngest ears. Anything above that is wasted power.
I have tailored hearing aids for the affected ear but find it only makes the whistle more aggressive as the day progresses.
It amuses me to read specifications on amplifiers; 2 - 50kHZ +-1dB.
Useful frequency range is up to 18kHZ for even the youngest ears. Anything above that is wasted power.
Even at 6kHz the dome will be different to the full range. There would be more influence in the areas of diffraction and room power even if you set them to the same response.
The response errors of your ears and those of the speakers combine. So it is advisible to have speakers that are a little better than your hearig ability. And don't forget that someone with good ears might join you while listening and for those a very restricted bandwith will sound very unnatural.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
On the bright side you are now perfectly qualified for cap and wire denialism 😎
But what's with the 60Hz? What makes you think you cannot hear lower frequencies?
How about keeping caps and cables out it, please?
6K limit is pretty low, you miss some warmth in the strings. I've still got about an octave on you, so I can't hear and don't care anything about the top audio octave. But top end isn't the most important hearing attribute, despite what you read so many people bragging about. What's your hearing threshold? How good is your sense of pitch, level change, distortion, direction? All of those things are important to keen hearing, young or old ears.
6K limit is pretty low, you miss some warmth in the strings. I've still got about an octave on you, so I can't hear and don't care anything about the top audio octave. But top end isn't the most important hearing attribute, despite what you read so many people bragging about. What's your hearing threshold? How good is your sense of pitch, level change, distortion, direction? All of those things are important to keen hearing, young or old ears.
Even though your hearing may be limited, don't you still need a decent frequency response for the complex tones (added harmonics) that effect the fundamentals timbre? How does a lopsided frequency response effect the fundamental tone?
May I keep my non-inductive wirewound resistors and super oxigen free flat foil inductors ? 😛😱
Oh, and those Duelund caps, for me...yes! THX!
There's definitely potential for <60Hz content, even if your ears can't "hear" it, you can still feel a tactile response. You'll find deaf people at concerts for that reason - they can still feel the bass.
I do know some people with a little hearing loss will deliberately increase the treble levels in order to compensate. That would result in their system conforming to their internal reference of what things ought to sound like, but doesn't correlate with an external reference like someone playing an instrument in front of you.
Chris
I do know some people with a little hearing loss will deliberately increase the treble levels in order to compensate. That would result in their system conforming to their internal reference of what things ought to sound like, but doesn't correlate with an external reference like someone playing an instrument in front of you.
Chris
I would guess it could be desirable to have good power response/off axis dispersion to 6KHz and treble extension an octave higher to 12KHz as there may be sideband activity from harmonics reaching into that upper region of your measured hearing.
IMHO, multi-way is for power handling (power divied up across 3 VCs dissipates better than one) and flat frequency response (bandwidth divied up across 3 optimized drivers is flatter than one).
For me, one of the things that also goes with age is the joy of SPL - sounds like a book title. When I was younger, I used to enjoy steeping myself in it. Not so much these days; when Skynyrd says "turn it up", I turn it down.
So what's left? Coherence through the frequency range I can hear. I can still enjoy a good soundstage projection. There's still "focus" of different instrument placements within that's enjoyable to fathom. I like an acoustic bass to sound like an acoustic bass is standing there, placed between my speakers, which can happen on certain recordings.
Dynamics is also appreciated still. There's a few tricks to getting that, very efficient speakers (another + for FRs) is just one, some say having 2nd harmonic (from single ended tube amplification, "Lampization", etc) is another. The folks with the SET amps and very efficient speakers could be onto something, regarding "older ear" enjoyment from this perspective. I have a toy that's a VST plug-in which does multi-band dynamic expansion. It can be set to create a subtle, yet makes-a-difference effect.
Certainly the gut-punch of a powerful, effortless low distortion sub is still perceptible even at lower, reasonable volume levels. There's a dimension that can be worked on to achieve some satisfaction, perhaps compensating some for age related losses at the upper end 😱
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It might probably be a good idea to have a switchable personalised EQ in order to compensate for the hearing loss a little. If it can be switched off the stereo could be used by others in the same household with normal hearing without getting earbleeding. And that would definitely mean the use of a capable tweeter - although it would definitley not need to go to 40 kHz.
There is usually (!) no hearing loss at low frequencies with age. Maybe you didn't test loud enough (keep the equal loudness curves in mind when doing that) or the test equipment didn't go low enough.
If someone is suffering from tinnitus it may probably be nice (depending on the type of tinnitus) to add a switchable notch filter (in both channels for phase equality even when only one ear is affected) also.
Regards
Charles
There is usually (!) no hearing loss at low frequencies with age. Maybe you didn't test loud enough (keep the equal loudness curves in mind when doing that) or the test equipment didn't go low enough.
If someone is suffering from tinnitus it may probably be nice (depending on the type of tinnitus) to add a switchable notch filter (in both channels for phase equality even when only one ear is affected) also.
Regards
Charles
Linearity is likely to be more important than frequency range. We oldies can tolerate frequency loss in music at both ends of the audio range, but our ears are distressed by undue prominence in any section.
Ah yes, I forgot to mention tonal balance within the range you (we...) can still hear, i.e. that what you would hear and prefer when listening in mono. This is not something I know much about, except that it's a parameter some swear by.
I bought my speakers in part because one guy hawking them said they reproduced the sound of a piano better than any of his other products. There's a piano in the house, which gets played regularly. Sometimes...
Not sure exactly about 60 Hz, and can't find the results from my last test right now. But certainly didn't go down to 20 or even 30 Hz.
That's what is interesting. All of those are still excellent. I hear distortion when other people don't and it drives me nuts. I bought my wife a Bose (Sonos type) speaker for listening in the kitchen and I can't stand to be in the same room with it. Terrible, terrible distortion. Tested the Sonos in the store first and it was worse.
Since I listen mostly to classical music things like dynamic range and transient response are very important and I don't sense any compromise in them. At least not yet.
And that would seem to support AllenB's comment above for a preference of a multi-way over a full range speaker