Cal, this is Handbuch der Audio Schaltungstechnik by Skritek Paul
There is no English translation
One sign of insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome.
Ah, that clearly applies to all of us here!
Now which subject on this thread have we not recirculated lately?
I don't "intend" to sound naive, but, if you're still talking about speaker cables, mine are Belden 12-gauge twisted pair, and are not the weak link in the chain. There's been a lot of water over the dam here, so, as usual, I'm likely behind the curve.
Also, thanks to all for the replies to my post of a couple days ago (I think post #4000 on this thread). I would like to post more on that topic. This whole topic of cables, cable construction, and the equipment they're connected to is very interesting to me. Maybe sometime over the weekend.
Also, thanks to all for the replies to my post of a couple days ago (I think post #4000 on this thread). I would like to post more on that topic. This whole topic of cables, cable construction, and the equipment they're connected to is very interesting to me. Maybe sometime over the weekend.
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If you are able to withdraw those thoughts it would be greatly appreciated. Cable threads are one of the biggest headaches Moderators deal with here. diyAudio is considering removing any threads dealing with the subjectivity of cables so why not just nip this one in the bud right here.
We thank you for your understanding.
If you disagree, feel free to send me a PM, just don't do it here.
“Now which subject on this thread have we not recirculated lately?”
How about the one about why output inductors in amplifiers are bad.
How about the one about why output inductors in amplifiers are bad.
I fear I will have to go wall mount at some point. I fear I will never be able to afford a place with room (or a room) to set up normal speakers properly.
Almost! There is enough room in the stands for my Centaur minors for DAC and 2 channels of power amplifer so makes sense to stay digital to that point. I have been offered a pair of slant 8s very cheap but the boss would not appreciate that!
It's not just in here, it's in most any other thread on this topic.
I hesitate to say anything here, there's enough people talking past one another on most topics, but it sure seems worse with s****** c*****. I could post links to at least two locked threads in the last year on the topic that I have participated in. I can only guess that the moderator prefers I not link to such threads, but I've surely given you enough info to find them. Lots of opinions there, and you know what opinions are like.
@benb
Talking past... That's been my perception too.
It has always had the flavour of the legacy geocentrics vs. Copernicus if not the nature.
After all these years it seems to me that it should have been a slam dunk to put "neo-Copernican" ideas in the "reject" bin. They should have been easier to disprove and to explain to us unwashed.
But when I ask about phase shift all I usually get back is a discussion of current carrying capacity... something else entirely.
Talking past... That's been my perception too.
It has always had the flavour of the legacy geocentrics vs. Copernicus if not the nature.
After all these years it seems to me that it should have been a slam dunk to put "neo-Copernican" ideas in the "reject" bin. They should have been easier to disprove and to explain to us unwashed.
But when I ask about phase shift all I usually get back is a discussion of current carrying capacity... something else entirely.
I would imagine pretty much any topic that covers the subjective impression of any passive component (wire most certainly being a passive component) is a rather noisome topic for the moderation. It certainly brings out the best in people.
So let's be kind to our dear moderators. 🙂
*actives aren't far behind, mind you.
So let's be kind to our dear moderators. 🙂
*actives aren't far behind, mind you.
For the 12 gauge 6' loudspeaker cable I use at 20,000 Hz into an 8 ohm loudspeaker the phase shift from the amplifier terminals to the loudspeaker terminals the phase shift would be .009 degrees. Pretty much lost in the noise for my measurement gear.
Derfy,
As usual you are ignoring the obvious active part of loudspeaker cables.
First a cable is made from two or more wires. Secondly when current flows through a wire, a magnetic field is created. There is also a surrounding magnetic field from the planet itself.
So now we have in effect a biased magnetic motor. The stiffness (using a term most will understand) of the insulation and the pretensioning of the cable jacket will limit the motion of the conductors. But due to the magnetic force, this small time varying electro motive force and resulting motion will result in a voltage from the planet's magnetic field. Now this effect makes the previously mention phase shift look enormous for folks on the planet Earth.
But it is obvious your mistake is presuming all of the thread participants are on or from the planet Earth! 😉
So please be more precise in the future. It will eliminate misunderstanding and empty chatter!
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Hmmm... two things.
First, 20kHz isn't the critical frequency to consider is it. The rise time (slope) that we're trying to preserve the integrity of is much steeper. Like a step function, no?
How did you arrive at 0.009 degrees? That's a lot different than a half a radian at one skin depth. Does the calculation involve bessels by any chance? The last chap who I asked mentioned them and then backed away.
I'm just trying to understand your assertion and its basis. Thanks.
First, 20kHz isn't the critical frequency to consider is it. The rise time (slope) that we're trying to preserve the integrity of is much steeper. Like a step function, no?
How did you arrive at 0.009 degrees? That's a lot different than a half a radian at one skin depth. Does the calculation involve bessels by any chance? The last chap who I asked mentioned them and then backed away.
I'm just trying to understand your assertion and its basis. Thanks.
Hi Cal,
I can assure you that I'm not interested in starting any arguments! My post of a couple days ago (#4000, I think) was only in response to existing discussion.
My more recent post, about being behind the curve, was primarily to highlight the fact that I can come here literally one day later, and there's 30 or 50 new posts in this thread. I just feel like I've got to read or skim all of them in order to keep up with what's going on, before replying! That's not a complaint. That's a compliment.
Anyway...
🙂
Cable and other debates.
Don't get me wrong. I genuinely respect everyone. But all these never ending numerous posts and thread debates are based on experienced knowledgeable guys and girls taking some hardly measurable/effective scientific theories or materials or concepts and connect it with sound reproduction stuff and again link it with hearing differences which only him or her or few can agree/hear and carry on and on. On top of that the method and veracity of how to prove it is again argued. Making it futile to reach any conclusion.
Don't get me wrong. I genuinely respect everyone. But all these never ending numerous posts and thread debates are based on experienced knowledgeable guys and girls taking some hardly measurable/effective scientific theories or materials or concepts and connect it with sound reproduction stuff and again link it with hearing differences which only him or her or few can agree/hear and carry on and on. On top of that the method and veracity of how to prove it is again argued. Making it futile to reach any conclusion.
In the Middle Ages people were burned, in the 20th century people and books were already burned. He who does not remember his past is doomed to relive it again.
