Very well put, as usual.
They never do. Simple logic would be to dispel it once and for all with evidence but no. They could have if the evidence existed.
Sadly, some people don't or can't see the nonsense even when it lands on their feet. BTW, this high level of persistence in spouting nonsense only come from those with business interest.
Exactly. People should pick what suits them. For example, audio asylum forum prohibits the mention of DBT by rule. It's a perfect place for people with certain view on audio electronics.
So, anyway, if someone passes a DBT thus proving they can hear what goes against the self-proclaimed objectivist's sacred beliefs, instead of admitting they were wrong, the self-proclaimed objectivists twist, turn, obfuscate, change the subject, do anything trying to pretend that the proof they kept saying they wanted never happened. The truth is they don't want proof. They want to something similar to a religion, where certain sacred beliefs are inviolable. Proof is not allowed and will not be accepted, not ever.
"Serious accusations", seriously? Maybe that explains why you, and others who agree with you, have a problem with certain posts?
Not the first time you spread this fud. Of the 30 or so areas in audioasylum only one (Cables) is a DBT-free zone. However they have clear rules against flames, personal attacks or contentious off-topic comments which may be the reason some people avoid it.
Accusing someone that he is covertly working for specified audio business, without any proof, is serious accusation.
I have no problem with any opinion. I may agree or disagree with and that’s it.
But I do have a problem with unjustified accusing, harassing and trolling.
Ok fair enough, subjectively I don't find it serious, funny more like.....maybe he's more of a consultant 😉
I was always wondering why working for an audio shop is considered such a touchy issue that people feel an urge either to deny it, or consider it the equivalent of capital murder accusation that needs to be proved beyond any reasonable doubt before being convicted for.
Funny enough, nobody ever cared to blame somebody like Scott W for a lifetime of working with ADI, or tie in any way shape or form his views to his employment.
Funny enough, nobody ever cared to blame somebody like Scott W for a lifetime of working with ADI, or tie in any way shape or form his views to his employment.
And to be even more precise, why does nobody blame Jan D for promoting his products (autoranging for sound cards, silent switcher) and a few others, on this web site? Tell you why: because he’s doing it decently, and never makes any outrageous and unsupported claims about. Or the advertising is done in the proper boards, intended for such activities, you won’t find much noise on these boards.
It is the cocktail of half baked engineering, subjective crapola, and lack of appetite for presenting any data to support the claims that makes me cringe and doubt the true intentions of the posters. Based on the idea that nobody can be that innocent or ignorant to truly believe what is said.
It is the cocktail of half baked engineering, subjective crapola, and lack of appetite for presenting any data to support the claims that makes me cringe and doubt the true intentions of the posters. Based on the idea that nobody can be that innocent or ignorant to truly believe what is said.
Then that's a perfect place to post something like "decided to try Jam's cables and get it over with.
Wow! Everything sounded better, less distorted, and the difference was easy to hear! I was basically stunned, never expected it."
Ovi,
You know you are just making up arguments that aren't the point all. Why not just be truthful. It all hinges on just two things: (1) you don't believe any human on earth can hear low level distortion, and you will never believe it no matter what evidence or proof is presented, and (2) you don't believe there is anything audible that doesn't show up quite plainly on AP measurements. Likely there is a (3) too, which is you don't believe that two devices that measure almost the same on an AP can sound audibly different.
All the other verbiage about half-baked engineering and subjective crapola is nothing more than your own crapola sacred belief half-baked baggage.
Of course, you know if you spell out your objections for what they really are it won't be as persuasive to other people who you want to convince that you are only being a reasonable guy. You are not reasonable at all, you are an intolerant extremest.
I read that post at the time and was beginning to think the same until I read the line in it that you seem to have missed where he said "By the way, I did not write the above for any commercial purpose." I'm prepared to believe that given Mark's track record. There are other mitigating lines in the post that you also choose to miss or ignore, so blinded might you be by your own opinions.
Are you saying he was lying? Did you approach him personally before going public? Are you judge and jury? Are you being economic and unbalanced with the truth and the facts? Methinks you complain too much in public. He's entitled to an opinion just as you and I are. We are adults and can sort the wheat from the chaff for ourselves, and I for one want to understand things I can hear but which cannot be explained.
Can I politely suggest that you take up and exhaust your similar issues privately as doing so publicly only results in posturing and anger and there is enough of that in the world already. There are much more worthy forum foes in this regard than Mark. I'm happy to share their details with you if you want an easy win.
Regards
John
Since the topics of Jam's cables has been raised by Evenharmonics again, I will give you guys an update. I still use them, Jam uses them, and small handful of his friends use them. That's it. They never were sold to the public and looks like they never will be. Maybe someday a 2nd generation of cables will be designed and sold, but Jam has too many other things to be worked on first. If and when new cables are designed I will probably switch to them myself. If and when they are sold it will have nothing to do with me, and I never was involved with marketing or selling the old cables either.
An interesting thing did happen recently, a paper was presented about audible effects in cables that were measured and audibility was confirmed by blind testing. The paper is entitled, "Physical characteristics of analog audio cables and their effect on sound quality." It is AES Convention Paper 10338.
The interesting thing is that effect described in the paper occurs when the cable is loaded at high Z, exactly the circumstances in which I tried Jam's cables and compared them to other cables. Load impedance for my listening tests was 50k-ohms.
Guy who wrote the paper has a PhD and is a professor. Now wait and hear him be attacked as a shill and for producing half-baked crapola.
An interesting thing did happen recently, a paper was presented about audible effects in cables that were measured and audibility was confirmed by blind testing. The paper is entitled, "Physical characteristics of analog audio cables and their effect on sound quality." It is AES Convention Paper 10338.
The interesting thing is that effect described in the paper occurs when the cable is loaded at high Z, exactly the circumstances in which I tried Jam's cables and compared them to other cables. Load impedance for my listening tests was 50k-ohms.
Guy who wrote the paper has a PhD and is a professor. Now wait and hear him be attacked as a shill and for producing half-baked crapola.
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I have a massive problem with people making subjective comments without proving that they are indeed actually hearing what they think they are hearing!
We know the human mind is incredibly fallible when it comes to our ability to judge based on our hearing. Something like the sun coming out, during a listening test, would be enough for your mind to think the sound changed too.
I think and therefore it will be, whether conscious or subconscious, has far more impact on what something sounds like than what it actually sounds like!
Not if you know what to listen for. You are talking about people that are unskilled listeners. Why do you assume skilled listeners don't and can't exist?
Here's a typical example of talking half baked engineering stuff and pretending they have any relevance, and here's step by step:
(1) What is "low level distortion"? How low is "low"?
(2) (3) What AP measurements do you have in mind? And did anybody say that an AP is the one and only tool required for audio measurements?
Otherwise, I don't recall giving you permission to use my first name in public. That in itself shows a crass lack of respect, before even insulting my intelligence with technical BS.
Nobody said there aren't. Problem is, how do we find one, they don't get any certifications? And second problem, if we find that super trained listener that can hear grains from chaff, how is that relevant for the rest of 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% humans?
I take it you know people can hear distortion a lot lower than -60dBFS in CD playback? The distortion of undithered CDs at -96dBFS is audible to some and not to others. It only stands to reason that -96dBFS is not the best anyone on earth can do. When I had gear setup to do it, basically a Sabre dac under Arduino control, I could show that I could hear IMD in music associated with a change down around -120dBFS in measured HD.
...and I sorted single stage unity gain buffer audio opamps in order of distortion double blind ears only. Hearing low level distortion is a skill I know how to do and know how to teach.
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