Yeah, and it's the $5 for an opamp is making the threshold between profitable and not. You must be joking, aren't you?
I would understand the next DIY enthusiast complaining about the AD797 opamp prices (although even that is a stretch) but the "high end audio industry" that insists in selling a preamp for >$10k (because anything under that price point can't be anything but "mid-fi").
Aerospace grade aluminum?!!!! Boeing has gone to building much of their airplane parts out of solid billets that are machined to precise parts. Cheaper and more reliable than previous fabrication methods.
I have built a number of cases out of solid aluminum. They range from the case that clips onto a referee's belt and holds a mute switch, mic jack, connecting cord and the deglitching circuit to audio equipment cases.
My class A power amplifier case is made from three hundred or so laminations. Cost effective methods for small quantities.
But do enlighten us if I want a 1/2" thick wall enclosure, how should I make it?
I have built a number of cases out of solid aluminum. They range from the case that clips onto a referee's belt and holds a mute switch, mic jack, connecting cord and the deglitching circuit to audio equipment cases.
My class A power amplifier case is made from three hundred or so laminations. Cost effective methods for small quantities.
But do enlighten us if I want a 1/2" thick wall enclosure, how should I make it?
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Legitimate question if you could cite a post where John Curl was offering such a statement, otherwise it is just the usual strawman approach, isn't it?
But we compensate that with a very good visual system to carefully read between the lines before we answer and that's in combination with an excellent memory that prevents most of us to tell fairy tales.
Whoever fits the shoe ....
Hans
^ for the # of units, might be the cheapest way to go (if you want it monolithic with just a lid), since you minimize tooling requirements.
There's a huge gulf between cost and value. Imagine if you sold only 20 of your massively parallelized preamp, syn08, and then try to pay yourself better than $25/hr, which is obviously way less than your salary equivalent. We both have been responsible for buying scientific/lab equipment, and know the low-volume, lots of development time problem (admittedly, it'd better be far less development time for an audio device than most lab instruments!).
I'm not saying it's worth it, especially for me, but these suckers are going to be expensive.
There's a huge gulf between cost and value. Imagine if you sold only 20 of your massively parallelized preamp, syn08, and then try to pay yourself better than $25/hr, which is obviously way less than your salary equivalent. We both have been responsible for buying scientific/lab equipment, and know the low-volume, lots of development time problem (admittedly, it'd better be far less development time for an audio device than most lab instruments!).
I'm not saying it's worth it, especially for me, but these suckers are going to be expensive.
Nitpicking and quibbling again, your specialty. Would it be any other reason why the "hi end audio" would complain about the price of the AD797?
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Derfy,
How many steps or program lines on a CNC mill do you think it takes to mill out a billet with a rectangular cavity?
Same question for a side attached to a base with a countersunk tapped hole?
If we take the per pound cost of the material removed from a billet and subtract the salvage value, what do you think it costs in extra material cost per cubic inch of extra material?
How many steps or program lines on a CNC mill do you think it takes to mill out a billet with a rectangular cavity?
Same question for a side attached to a base with a countersunk tapped hole?
If we take the per pound cost of the material removed from a billet and subtract the salvage value, what do you think it costs in extra material cost per cubic inch of extra material?
Depends on the machine, Ed. 
The baby mill I have at work would be infinitely more profitable (but so, so expensive/hr) to do bolted plates as its material removal rate is, um anemic. When you need micron precision, though, let me know.
For a more common ~$50k VMC with a 5-10 HP spindle and a high feed mill to hog out cavities, I could model and program up a case in a few hours. You do need at least a 4 axis to do the engravings on the front and back without additional ops though.
The baby mill I have at work would be infinitely more profitable (but so, so expensive/hr) to do bolted plates as its material removal rate is, um anemic. When you need micron precision, though, let me know.For a more common ~$50k VMC with a 5-10 HP spindle and a high feed mill to hog out cavities, I could model and program up a case in a few hours. You do need at least a 4 axis to do the engravings on the front and back without additional ops though.
Derfy,
Not bad. Hogging out 4 lines of code for the entire program. Countersinking, through hole drilling, tap hole drilling and tapping, 15 lines of code and four tool changes per side!
Material cost of milling out would be about fifteen cents per cubic inch.
Things like control holes and engraving should be the same for either technique. I would of course engrave and drill the billet before making the cavity.
On a three axis 5 HP machine ($10,000.00) I would do the back first, then the front, change tools to engrave and then change tools again, go flat and hollow it out. Finally while it is flat I would trim the sides and back. Probably on a small mill like that you could only make 4 cases a day, but the machinist time would be under an hour.
Not bad. Hogging out 4 lines of code for the entire program. Countersinking, through hole drilling, tap hole drilling and tapping, 15 lines of code and four tool changes per side!
Material cost of milling out would be about fifteen cents per cubic inch.
Things like control holes and engraving should be the same for either technique. I would of course engrave and drill the billet before making the cavity.
On a three axis 5 HP machine ($10,000.00) I would do the back first, then the front, change tools to engrave and then change tools again, go flat and hollow it out. Finally while it is flat I would trim the sides and back. Probably on a small mill like that you could only make 4 cases a day, but the machinist time would be under an hour.
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When we made the first CTC Blowtorch, we did NOT hog out a billet of aluminum. We made a similar case using special welding techniques. After seeing the 'beer drinking' welder in action, Bob Crump elected to use the solid billet approach, and that all (almost 50) were made that way afterward. I'm pretty sure that our first quoted price was about $1500 for 2 cases (one main, one power supply) that were about equal in difficulty in fabrication. Over the years, the price went up to about $3000 just for the raw cases, and we decided to not make any more units. WHY the cost effectively doubled, I do not know. You would think that the price would have remained the same or even dropped slightly, but it didn't. That's reality folks!
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They probably saw what they were going for and reckoned it was mainly due to the case.
What a boring insult. Feel free to price this stuff. Admittedly I'm a bit dumbfounded by the cost, but it ain't cheap when you don't have economies of scale (and fat aluminum cases are going to have too much metal to be cheap regardless).
Again we can argue whether it has value, but costs are a different thing entirely.
Again we can argue whether it has value, but costs are a different thing entirely.
Compared to the cost of CONSTELLATION cases, the Blowtorch was relatively cheap. Why? It just depends on what they have to do to make a 'special' case, that will stand out amongst the competition. Parasound cases, are much cheaper to make, in Taiwan, and look kind of 'cheap' compared with their competition, and this can be a problem with sales. Parasound puts most of its investment into the inside of the box.
Ok, and given the circumstances, why would the cost of the (say) servo opamp matter, to the level of the "audio high end industry" complaining about and calling it a rip off?
What would you cook with it?
I paid $4,000.00 for my used CNC 5 HP 4' x 8' 3 axis router. Did have to spend a few hundred on new linear slide bearings.
Airbus have been hogging the wings out of solid for 20+ years. I think for a while it was the longest horizontal mill in the world. of course all moving towards composites now.