Something that performs at a higher level to allow a unit to meet specification (say LIGO) is worth more money than a cheaper unit that doesn't.
Something that is shinier or has more marketing BS behind it and is often bought by dentists to brag about is a harder value justification...
Edit: ADI can make 1 million. Not sure Nelson would accept the order as its' a 20dB increase in production. I am sure he would think hard about it though.
Something that is shinier or has more marketing BS behind it and is often bought by dentists to brag about is a harder value justification...
Edit: ADI can make 1 million. Not sure Nelson would accept the order as its' a 20dB increase in production. I am sure he would think hard about it though.
Neither does AD from AD797, maybe the crooks (like Burson) are.
For a self proclaimed DIY enthusiast, with a DVM, a 100MHz scope, and a short wave radio under his belt, you seem to claim a lot of knowledge about the "high end audio industry".
When I sell a sound system for $2,000,000.00 is that wasted customer money or fair value received?
Ed we have zero idea without the necessary context.
While some may consider the AD797 a luxury good (and there are applications where it is), I'm sure it's a high margin, low volume device. If you need it or other devices in its performance realm, you pay similarly. Fortunately, it's much easier to appreciate the value of this part (for most of its applications) than it is any item designed for human perception. And that's covers the range from careful, large-scale evaluations to well-meaning, seat-of-the pants development -- the metrics are simply not as well defined.
The "high end" (High ticket? High performance? High what?) audio market, at least at the domestic level where we enjoy throwing poop from our respective cages, is very very definitely a luxury good. Each person must decide their respective value proposition, as it's largely divorced from performance. One doesn't own a custom-built mansion to merely satisfy having a roof over one's head nor buy a super-car to get groceries. That is the respective owner's prerogative.
It is not surprising that some audio products cost as much as they do, given their volume cannot divide down their development cost nor enjoy significant economies of scale. But neither does it make them a "good deal", so to speak.
To many here the value proposition isn't there, neither for the AD797 nor for "high end audio".
No, the price rise of the AD797 is not justified. ADA4898-2 costs 2/3 and has 2 devices.
I'm moving to TI now. Draws half the current as a bonus.
I'm used to these price increases from Xilinx. It's their way to steer people to other chips.
They eol some devices but keep maybe half a wafer so they can deliver if someone really
needs them. Their foundries won't keep the old process forever. I think I still can get stone
age XC3000 FPGAs, but the prices, OMG!
I'm moving to TI now. Draws half the current as a bonus.
I'm used to these price increases from Xilinx. It's their way to steer people to other chips.
They eol some devices but keep maybe half a wafer so they can deliver if someone really
needs them. Their foundries won't keep the old process forever. I think I still can get stone
age XC3000 FPGAs, but the prices, OMG!
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I was always wondering about the retail prices for the last generation FPGAs. $170k for a chip?
XCVU47P-3FSVH2892E Xilinx Inc. | Integrated Circuits (ICs) | DigiKey
Who the ****, other than the military, could justify this price? And who would need the quantity required to get volume pricing?
And it's about the same for both Xilinx and Altera now Intel.
1ST280EY1F55I2LG Intel | Integrated Circuits (ICs) | DigiKey
These chips are not even built in the top process, they are 15-20nm at best and they do not build fabs for, TSMC is the manufacturer of choice. True, some have a 3D topology, but still...
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What’s so special about the price of the AD797? I get it locally for 9.8Euro (1 off, Mouser).
I’ve paid more for the humble AD620.
A year ago, a good soul (member mkc) sent me a lot of semis, among them ten AD797. I don’t intend to put them in a safe, or should I?
George
I’ve paid more for the humble AD620.
A year ago, a good soul (member mkc) sent me a lot of semis, among them ten AD797. I don’t intend to put them in a safe, or should I?
George
The AD797, while an excellent device, is priced significantly over competing products from TI etc. It is just a 'cash cow' for ADI. Come on everybody, wake up! For absolute low distortion, it has an advantage because of a design breakthrough (added external cap) that Scott implemented, and I would still recommend them for front ends for precision test equipment, but they sound no better than a TI competitor (according to my listening comparison), and they are not quieter, faster, or anything else that I can think of, except slightly (relatively) lower static distortion when implemented with the added cap. This can be important in instrumentation, but not for audio listening.
No idea, I see Mouser has AD841's in stock at $12 in fact most of the original parts are listed as active all at prices (I assume) to get folks to move on to newer stuff. The AD829 in DIP is $11.38 this one is tiny so there seems to simply be a price that justifies keeping these legacy parts around. I did help port it to 6" wafers but that was years ago.
Funny thing is new designs were halted so the CAD guy took it upon himself to erase all the process files from the system with no backup "to save disk space". This left us unable to help customers with any unusual problems that required a sim.
S883 AD829's are listed at Digikey for $169.83
EDIT - Remember all prices for <100 pieces are distributor based.
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So, it’s still as good as it was for instrumentation, the target design application.
Then what is the pricing problem for a diyer who might use only few units of this selected part?
Why was it targeted in an environment where boutique passive components is an everyday show?
George
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It is because the 797 pricing appears to be a ripoff compared to its actual fabrication cost, a complaint made here about much of hi end audio. The proof is the price of competitive TI parts being significantly lower with essentially the same sonic quality and almost the same measured distortion, same speed, etc. Of course it is cheaper to buy an IC rather than build one, but a rip off (like many hi end cables) even if it is an IC, should be noted.
That's hypocritical, if not worse. The "high end audio" industry (or what's left of it) sells it's gear for huge prices (with huge markups like 1000%) and then bitches about $5 extra for an 8 leg monster.
Syno8, you appear to have little understanding of what it really costs to make a hi end electronic based product like a power amp or a preamp. Especially the cost of the outside enclosures. They cost big money, OEM. Hi end cables are another story. It appears that many hi end cable manufacturers are giving BIG discounts to dealers to make them into a very profitable accessory. I do not approve of this, any more than the rest of you. It seems to be a way for the dealer to give a significant 'discount' on the cables as a 'sweetener' and still not lose money on the cables themselves.
